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Melanoma and Brain Metastases

October 04, 2021

October 3, 2021

Yale Cancer Center

visit: http://www.yalecancercenter.org

email: canceranswers@yale.edu

call: 203-785-4095

ID
6953

Transcript

  • 00:00Funding for Yale Cancer Answers
  • 00:03is provided by Smilow Cancer
  • 00:05Hospital and AstraZeneca.
  • 00:08Welcome to Yale Cancer Answers
  • 00:10with host Dr Anees Chagpar.
  • 00:12Yale Cancer Answers features the
  • 00:14latest information on cancer care by
  • 00:16welcoming oncologists and specialists
  • 00:18who are on the forefront of the
  • 00:20battle to fight cancer. This week,
  • 00:22it's a conversation about Melanoma and
  • 00:25brain metastases with Doctor Thuy Tran.
  • 00:27Dr Tran is an instructor of
  • 00:29medicine in medical oncology at
  • 00:31the Yale School of Medicine,
  • 00:32where Dr Chagpar is a
  • 00:34professor of surgical oncology.
  • 00:37Doctor Tran, maybe we can start off
  • 00:39by you telling us a little bit
  • 00:40about yourself and what you do.
  • 00:42Absolutely, I am a translational
  • 00:45researcher at Yale Cancer Center.
  • 00:48I did my residency and fellowship
  • 00:50in heme/onc here and I'm happy to
  • 00:53be involved in the Melanoma team
  • 00:55treating patients with advanced
  • 00:57malignancies and skin cancers.
  • 00:59I do a lot of translational research,
  • 01:01which means that I am working at the
  • 01:03bench but also take what we find out
  • 01:05at the bench straight to the clinic
  • 01:07so that we can effect real change
  • 01:09in how we treat this disease.
  • 01:11So tell us a little bit
  • 01:13more about your research.
  • 01:14I mean you work in the Melanoma team,
  • 01:18how exactly does the translational
  • 01:20research part fit in and what
  • 01:22specifically are you looking at?
  • 01:25I've been spending the past couple
  • 01:27years really looking at innate
  • 01:29immunity in the brain and how we
  • 01:31can really capitalize on stimulating
  • 01:33those cells and in conjunction with
  • 01:35our currently available
  • 01:37therapies to try to improve
  • 01:39disease outcomes for our patients.
  • 01:41So just to give you an example.
  • 01:43One of the projects that I'm
  • 01:45highly involved with is trying to
  • 01:47target the blood brain barrier.
  • 01:49The blood brain barrier
  • 01:51has been a really understudied but
  • 01:54very clinically relevant and highly
  • 01:56impactful way for cancers to really
  • 01:58gain an advantage and to metastasize
  • 02:01and grow in the brain and so really
  • 02:03trying to focus on the blood brain
  • 02:06barrier and try to get these drugs
  • 02:08into the brain has been an
  • 02:10area of ongoing interest.
  • 02:12Just to give you an example.
  • 02:13So one of our currently active
  • 02:16projects is looking at targeting Veg F,
  • 02:19which stands for vascular
  • 02:21endothelial growth factor.
  • 02:22It's a subtle kind that really
  • 02:24stimulates blood vessel development,
  • 02:26and sometimes these tumors and the
  • 02:28immune cells surrounding them will
  • 02:30secrete this cytokine to help stimulate
  • 02:33tumor growth and so how can we
  • 02:35target this protein as well as maybe
  • 02:38target the endothelial cells themselves to
  • 02:40help decrease tumor growth in the brain.
  • 02:43And so we have a couple of
  • 02:45interesting targets,
  • 02:45one of which is currently an active
  • 02:48clinical trial within our Melanoma group
  • 02:50looking at Melanoma and lung cancer
  • 02:52patients who have brain metastases.
  • 02:55And so this clinical trial is
  • 02:57a phase two study looking at
  • 02:59the combination of bevacizumab,
  • 03:01which is our anti veg F drug
  • 03:02to help minimize blood vessel
  • 03:05development in combination with
  • 03:07an immune stimulating agent,
  • 03:09the checkpoint inhibitor pembrolizumab,
  • 03:11which targets another pathway
  • 03:13to help stimulate our own bodies
  • 03:15immune system to help fight cancer.
  • 03:18We're also going to be developing a
  • 03:21second clinical trial of pembrolizumab
  • 03:24or immune stimulating agent in
  • 03:26combination with Lenvatinib,
  • 03:28which instead of targeting the
  • 03:29cytokine itself,
  • 03:30targets the veg F receptors on the
  • 03:33endothelial cells and hopefully we
  • 03:35can get even a more dramatic immune response.
  • 03:39So today I want to take a step back
  • 03:41here and just kind of talk a little bit
  • 03:43about the blood brain barrier itself.
  • 03:46What exactly is it and how
  • 03:50does it affect cancer cells?
  • 03:52As we're always learning more
  • 03:54and more about the blood brain barrier,
  • 03:56it's not as simple as we first thought
  • 03:58where it's just comprised of the
  • 04:00blood vessel and death elial cells,
  • 04:02the blood brain barrier is
  • 04:04actually much more complicated.
  • 04:05It's composed of not only
  • 04:07the endothelial cells,
  • 04:07but all these supportive cells
  • 04:10adjacent to them,
  • 04:11and so this includes parasites
  • 04:13which control vasoconstriction
  • 04:14or the ability of these blood
  • 04:17vessels to contract and dilate.
  • 04:19It also includes all the supportive
  • 04:22astrocytes which have their
  • 04:24little processes in and feet
  • 04:26on the endothelial cells.
  • 04:28It includes interneurons,
  • 04:30it includes microglia,
  • 04:32microglia are considered,
  • 04:33sort of the innate immune cells
  • 04:35that reside within the brain.
  • 04:37How come the cancer cells can get
  • 04:39into the brain but the drugs can't?
  • 04:42You know the blood brain barrier
  • 04:44in normal states without any
  • 04:47pressure related to metastasis is
  • 04:50a very intact endothelial layer,
  • 04:52meaning that there are these specific
  • 04:55interconnections within or
  • 04:57between the endothelial cells
  • 04:59that prevent any other molecules,
  • 05:01such as drugs such as immune cells from
  • 05:05infiltrating or getting beyond them.
  • 05:08They typically are described
  • 05:09as the soldiers.
  • 05:11Remember the Roman soldiers
  • 05:13if you ever watch one of those
  • 05:15movies with all their Shields up
  • 05:18so they form an impenetrable
  • 05:20barrier to help prevent things
  • 05:22from getting past that layer.
  • 05:25And that's what's really
  • 05:26caused a lot of issues.
  • 05:28For example,
  • 05:29in breast cancer therapy where
  • 05:31chemotherapies that traditionally
  • 05:33work in breast cancers can't
  • 05:34penetrate into the brain,
  • 05:36and so we're seeing a lot more of late
  • 05:39relapses in the brain because these
  • 05:41cancer effective therapies are not
  • 05:43able to penetrate and circulate there.
  • 05:46So why can the cancer cells get
  • 05:48through those those Roman Shields?
  • 05:50I mean, it sounds like that should really be,
  • 05:53as you say, an impenetrable barrier.
  • 05:55And yet, cancer cells can seem to
  • 05:57sneak their way through.
  • 05:59Cancer cells when they metastasize,
  • 06:04they go through a very complex process,
  • 06:08basically giving them the ability to
  • 06:10invade through normal tissue and during
  • 06:13that process they adopt a different shape,
  • 06:16a different morphology.
  • 06:17They become migratory.
  • 06:19They get enter the bloodstream,
  • 06:21and when they circulate,
  • 06:23they essentially get into the brain.
  • 06:25And either lodge at Branch points
  • 06:28within those blood vessels in the
  • 06:30brain and cancer cells have all
  • 06:32sorts of different proteins and
  • 06:34things that they up regulate or
  • 06:37express to help them survive and
  • 06:40proliferate during this process,
  • 06:42and a few of those proteins include
  • 06:45things like matrix metalloproteases
  • 06:47where they can break apart different
  • 06:50elements of the tumor stroma,
  • 06:52or the tumor microenvironment,
  • 06:54and this allows them
  • 06:56essentially to break apart those tight
  • 06:58junctions within this endothelial cells.
  • 07:01Wedge themselves in between these
  • 07:05cells and eventually be able to set up
  • 07:08shop and grow there.
  • 07:09So I guess just to
  • 07:11press the point further,
  • 07:14my question is if the tumor cells can kind
  • 07:17of finagle their way through this barrier,
  • 07:20either they make holes in the barrier,
  • 07:23they kind of distort and try to get through,
  • 07:26then are those changes to
  • 07:29the blood brain barrier that allow
  • 07:32the cancer cells to get through,
  • 07:35those don't seem to be permanent enough
  • 07:37to allow our drugs to get through.
  • 07:39Or is there another thing at play?
  • 07:41Are the drugs too large?
  • 07:44Is it that they can't squish
  • 07:46through the little spaces?
  • 07:48Or is this more than simply
  • 07:50a mechanical problem?
  • 07:52I think the answer is actually a little
  • 07:55complicated to address and we don't
  • 07:57really at this point fully understand
  • 07:59how our current effective therapies
  • 08:01really penetrate to get into the brain.
  • 08:04So one hypothesis
  • 08:05is that actually when we give immune
  • 08:07therapy these immune stimulating
  • 08:09drugs that help educate our own
  • 08:12immune system to fight the cancer,
  • 08:14we're doing that below the
  • 08:17neck so peripherally,
  • 08:18so these educated immune cells can
  • 08:21then subsequently migrate through
  • 08:24the circulation into the brain.
  • 08:27They have a much easier ability
  • 08:29to transmigrate through the
  • 08:31endothelial layer and get into
  • 08:33the tumor to where they can have
  • 08:36antitumor effect,
  • 08:37the other component of this is maybe
  • 08:40the defects that lead to
  • 08:43forming a tumor in the brain caused
  • 08:45vessel leakiness and vessel damage,
  • 08:47and such that you have this
  • 08:51chronic adima or loss of vessel
  • 08:54integrity and that therefore
  • 08:56allows these large monoclonal
  • 08:59antibodies which are essentially
  • 09:01our immune checkpoint drugs,
  • 09:03to actually access
  • 09:06into the tumor
  • 09:07ecause these vessels are already so leaky.
  • 09:09That's really great
  • 09:11news on the immunotherapy front,
  • 09:14knowing that these therapies
  • 09:16can get into the brain,
  • 09:18I guess the next question is, well,
  • 09:20how come chemotherapy drugs can't do that?
  • 09:23I mean, we give them
  • 09:25peripherally into a vein below the neck,
  • 09:28right into a hand,
  • 09:29they get into a blood vessel.
  • 09:31How come they can't follow the same
  • 09:34kinds of path?
  • 09:38Yeah, so our blood brain barrier
  • 09:40through our development
  • 09:42has upregulated a lot
  • 09:45of drug efflux pumps and so these
  • 09:48endothelial cells that constitute
  • 09:50the blood brain barrier they have
  • 09:53these specialized pumps that whenever
  • 09:56drug does penetrate into the cells,
  • 09:58they pump them right back out
  • 10:00into the circulation.
  • 10:01And so that's what limits the effectiveness
  • 10:05of standard chemotherapy and
  • 10:07it's really not a very good treatment
  • 10:10option for patients with brain metastases.
  • 10:14OK, I get all of that.
  • 10:16So now let's talk a little
  • 10:18bit more about this.
  • 10:20Veg F that you were
  • 10:21mentioning just a moment ago,
  • 10:23this vascular endothelial
  • 10:24growth factor is that something
  • 10:26that is present on particular
  • 10:29cancer cells that these
  • 10:30therapies now are attacking?
  • 10:33Veg F is upregulated in a lot
  • 10:36of different cell types, and
  • 10:38one of those being Melanoma,
  • 10:39where we have found that circulating
  • 10:42veg F is actually a poor prognostic
  • 10:45marker in patients, so they
  • 10:47say essentially they have worse
  • 10:49outcomes when they have elevated
  • 10:50circulating levels of this protein.
  • 10:53So the protein is in the circulation.
  • 10:55It's not necessarily on the
  • 10:57tumor cells, or is it on both?
  • 10:58It's very ubiquitously expressed.
  • 11:02It can be expressed by the tumor cells
  • 11:05themselves and have a local effect in that
  • 11:08increased regulation or increased
  • 11:11expression of VEGF can also
  • 11:14appear as circulating levels.
  • 11:17Tumor cells, in addition to immune cells,
  • 11:21can also increase veg F levels too.
  • 11:23So, for example,
  • 11:24a specific type of immune cell
  • 11:27which essentially gobble up a lot
  • 11:30of tumor cells or cell debris.
  • 11:33One of those is macrophages.
  • 11:35So macrophages are able to secrete
  • 11:37high levels of veg F as well.
  • 11:40And so that makes me think that
  • 11:43these anti VEGF therapies that you're
  • 11:46looking at in clinical trials,
  • 11:48they might be
  • 11:50something not specific
  • 11:53for particular patients that they might
  • 11:55be more ubiquitously used rather than
  • 11:57some of the therapies that come out
  • 12:00where you really need to check the
  • 12:02tumor cells to make sure that
  • 12:05particular protein or that particular
  • 12:06receptor is on the tumor cell.
  • 12:08It sounds like this is something that
  • 12:11could be used for most patients.
  • 12:13Is that right?
  • 12:14That's correct. So actually,
  • 12:16even recently within the past couple
  • 12:18weeks we've had another FDA approval
  • 12:21for the combination of pembrolizumab
  • 12:22and lenvatinib,
  • 12:25being one of our veg F receptor
  • 12:27targeting drugs in addition to other
  • 12:30receptors that it does block as well.
  • 12:33So that was actually just in
  • 12:36advanced renal cell carcinoma.
  • 12:38The combination is already
  • 12:40been also approved in
  • 12:41advanced endometrial cancer,
  • 12:43and then actually Merck,
  • 12:46the company that produces pembrolizumab
  • 12:51is currently investigating this combination
  • 12:55in the first line and second line
  • 12:58setting for Melanoma patients as well.
  • 13:01Wow, all really interesting
  • 13:02developments which we will need
  • 13:04to investigate more when we take
  • 13:07a brief break for medical minute.
  • 13:09Please stay tuned to learn
  • 13:10more about Melanoma
  • 13:11and brain metastases with
  • 13:13my guest doctor Thuy Tran.
  • 13:15Funding for Yale Cancer Answers
  • 13:17comes from AstraZeneca, dedicated
  • 13:19to advancing options and providing
  • 13:21hope for people living with cancer.
  • 13:24More information at AstraZeneca Dash us.com.
  • 13:30The American Cancer Society
  • 13:32estimates that more than 65,000
  • 13:34Americans will be diagnosed with
  • 13:36head and neck cancer this year,
  • 13:38making up about 4% of all cancers
  • 13:41diagnosed. When detected early,
  • 13:43however, head and neck cancers are
  • 13:45easily treated and highly curable.
  • 13:47Clinical trials are currently
  • 13:49underway at federally designated
  • 13:51Comprehensive cancer centers such
  • 13:53as Yale Cancer Center and at Smilow
  • 13:55Cancer Hospital to test innovative new
  • 13:57treatments for head and neck cancers.
  • 14:00Yale Cancer Center was recently awarded
  • 14:02grants from the National Institutes
  • 14:05of Health to fund the Yale Head
  • 14:07and neck Cancer Specialized program
  • 14:10of Research Excellence or SPORE to
  • 14:12address critical barriers to treatment
  • 14:14of head and neck squamous cell
  • 14:17carcinoma due to resistance to immune
  • 14:19DNA damaging and targeted therapy.
  • 14:22More information is available at
  • 14:25yalecancercenter.org you're listening
  • 14:26to Connecticut Public Radio.
  • 14:29Welcome back to Yale Cancer Answers.
  • 14:32This is doctor Anees Chagpar and I'm
  • 14:34joined tonight by my guest Doctor Thuy Tran.
  • 14:37We're talking about the care of patients
  • 14:39with Melanoma and brain metastases,
  • 14:42and right before the break we were
  • 14:45talking about some of the techniques,
  • 14:48some of the new trials that are ongoing,
  • 14:51especially looking at use of anti
  • 14:54veg F therapies and immunotherapy
  • 14:56for patients with Melanoma,
  • 14:59who had brain metastases.
  • 15:01So I thought we'd take a step back and talk a
  • 15:04little bit more about patients with Melanoma
  • 15:07who have brain metastases.
  • 15:08So I think all of us know that Melanoma
  • 15:11is one of the deadliest skin cancers.
  • 15:14But how common is Melanoma?
  • 15:19Many patients get Melanoma.
  • 15:21What proportion of them will
  • 15:23actually develop brain metastases?
  • 15:26Melanoma over the past couple decades
  • 15:29it's actually the incidence
  • 15:32that's increasing more recently about 75,000
  • 15:35new cases are diagnosed each year and
  • 15:38it's a malignancy that is driven by both
  • 15:42genetic as well as environmental causes,
  • 15:45some of which are related to non
  • 15:49UV exposure and so really a lot of
  • 15:52Melanoma develops as we grow older in
  • 15:56our fifth generation or fifth decade.
  • 15:59And so it does have a higher
  • 16:02dominance in men,
  • 16:03and there are certain mutations
  • 16:06associated with it.
  • 16:0850% of melanomas will contain
  • 16:11a BRAF mutation that we can actually
  • 16:14target with effective BRAF inhibiting
  • 16:16drugs as well as MEC inhibiting drugs
  • 16:19that also help boost that response.
  • 16:22So just to pick up on
  • 16:24the genetic element for a second
  • 16:26one of the things that you said,
  • 16:28which I found really interesting
  • 16:30and I think our listeners will be
  • 16:33interested to learn about as well is
  • 16:35that there are a lot of melanomas
  • 16:38that are not related to UV exposure.
  • 16:40That may be genetic,
  • 16:42so by that do you mean that we should
  • 16:45know about our family history in terms
  • 16:47of our risk of developing Melanoma?
  • 16:50And when you talk about BRAF mutations,
  • 16:53are you talking about germline
  • 16:55mutations or are these more
  • 16:57somatic mutations that you'll find in a tumor?
  • 17:01The BRAF mutations are new mutations.
  • 17:05Sometimes we actually see
  • 17:07these mutations present but not
  • 17:09associated with any malignancy.
  • 17:11But when they do appear associated
  • 17:15with advanced Melanoma,
  • 17:16it is something that we can actually target.
  • 17:19Now these BRAF mutations
  • 17:20are not unique to Melanoma.
  • 17:21They're actually present in
  • 17:24certain types of colon cancers.
  • 17:27And as well as lung cancers.
  • 17:28And so the same drugs apply they're
  • 17:31as effective in those other types
  • 17:33of cancers as they are in Melanoma.
  • 17:36And so some people, even if they wear
  • 17:39sunscreen and they make sure
  • 17:41that they're not getting a lot of
  • 17:43UV exposure and so on and so forth.
  • 17:45They can still get Melanoma because of
  • 17:47these genetic mutations. Is that right?
  • 17:49Yes, in terms of the non sun
  • 17:52exposed related melanomas, we typically
  • 17:55think of those as a acreal melanomas.
  • 17:57Meaning they form between the hands,
  • 17:59the webs of the hands and
  • 18:01the feet on her extremities,
  • 18:04and so these are typically places
  • 18:05that you know aren't basking
  • 18:06in the Sun and other places
  • 18:10that melanomas can evolve from,
  • 18:12is the mucosal lining of
  • 18:16our upper oral pharanx
  • 18:18as well as the anal rectal region.
  • 18:21Vulvar melanomas from the reproductive tract,
  • 18:25as well as uveal melanoma's also
  • 18:27from the pigmented layers of the eyes.
  • 18:29So Melanoma, in essence,
  • 18:31is a cancer of the melanocytes.
  • 18:34These pigmented cells and so anywhere
  • 18:36where we have pigment there are
  • 18:40melanocytes associated with them.
  • 18:42When you think
  • 18:44about these genetic mutations,
  • 18:46now that we know more and more about them,
  • 18:48certainly you know people who have a
  • 18:53genetic mutation who are at increased risk,
  • 18:56they may want to take additional precautions.
  • 18:59You know making sure that
  • 19:00they're really getting
  • 19:02a good dermatologic exam,
  • 19:04and staying out of the sun,
  • 19:05and so on and so forth.
  • 19:07But one of the questions that I
  • 19:09have is for some genetic mutation,
  • 19:11for example for the RET proto oncogene,
  • 19:15which predisposes to thyroid cancers,
  • 19:18these are things that newborn
  • 19:21babies have tested,
  • 19:22whereas other mutations like
  • 19:24BRCA for example is something
  • 19:26that we don't generally test
  • 19:29until you know somebody comes
  • 19:30up to us and says,
  • 19:31you know I have a family history of
  • 19:34breast cancer and so should I get tested.
  • 19:36Where does BRAF kind of
  • 19:38fit into the grand scheme of things?
  • 19:41It's less clear whether having
  • 19:44a pre-existing BRAF mutation
  • 19:46ultimately will induce cancer.
  • 19:49A lot of the times it doesn't,
  • 19:51and it's just something that we
  • 19:54pick up that's not prognostic or
  • 19:58indicative of any future malignancy.
  • 20:01It's really something that we
  • 20:03find later on once the cancer is
  • 20:05developed that we can potentially
  • 20:06target as an effective therapy.
  • 20:08And you mentioned, BRCA mutations
  • 20:11in a very small
  • 20:13subset of patients can
  • 20:16contribute to increased risk of
  • 20:18Melanoma as well as pancreatic cancer.
  • 20:20So really it depends on family
  • 20:23history and it really depends
  • 20:25on your personal history too.
  • 20:26If you have a patient with multiple
  • 20:29melanomas with a strong family
  • 20:32history of multiple immediate
  • 20:34kin with Melanoma cancers,
  • 20:36that's when we typically
  • 20:39flag and refer
  • 20:41these patients to genetic counseling
  • 20:43to see if there are indeed these
  • 20:45generalized mutations that predispose
  • 20:47these patients to developing Melanoma
  • 20:50as well as other malignancies.
  • 20:52And so it really has an
  • 20:54impact on family members,
  • 20:55particularly children.
  • 20:56When we see patients in the clinic,
  • 20:59we always counseled them about preventive
  • 21:02measures that they can do to limit
  • 21:06additional UV damage and sun exposure risk,
  • 21:08but also,
  • 21:12seeing the dermatologist regularly,
  • 21:14making sure that they have full
  • 21:16body skin exams and making sure
  • 21:18that their family and their next
  • 21:20of kin are also screened with
  • 21:22full body skin exams as well.
  • 21:25Sadly there isn't anything that we can
  • 21:28do that will kind of reverse that,
  • 21:32but certainly taking additional precautions
  • 21:34like all of us should be in terms of
  • 21:37avoiding sun exposure and wearing
  • 21:38sunscreen and avoiding tanning salons and
  • 21:40things like that are really good ideas.
  • 21:43I wanted to take us back to the
  • 21:46whole concept of brain metastases so
  • 21:48we know that Melanoma, as you said,
  • 21:52the incidence is increasing.
  • 21:53People are getting this as they get older.
  • 21:55But what proportion of patients with
  • 21:58Melanoma actually will get brain metastases?
  • 22:02So about 40% of patients with
  • 22:04advanced Melanoma at some
  • 22:06point get a brain metastasis.
  • 22:08Now, as we're using a lot of
  • 22:11better imaging modalities,
  • 22:13mainly MRI of the brain,
  • 22:15we're catching a lot of
  • 22:17asymptomatic brain metastases,
  • 22:19so these are very small
  • 22:20metastases that are not associated with
  • 22:22significant edema around them,
  • 22:24and so we're able to treat
  • 22:26these smaller metastases earlier so that
  • 22:29they don't later become a larger issue.
  • 22:33There's a lot of toxicity
  • 22:36related to symptomatic brain metastases
  • 22:38because the brain itself is,
  • 22:40you know, encased in a very thick
  • 22:44structural support system,
  • 22:46which is the skull,
  • 22:47and so there's not a lot of
  • 22:49room for any lesions to expand
  • 22:52or any swelling to occur,
  • 22:53and so you have a very finite
  • 22:56window to address growing
  • 22:58lesions in the brain and so that's why
  • 23:01we've come up with alternative and
  • 23:03adjunctive therapies to help achieve
  • 23:05local control in the brain better.
  • 23:07And that includes not in
  • 23:09addition to immune therapy,
  • 23:11but also adding radiation to that
  • 23:13plan to help boost that immune response.
  • 23:17I want to get to the
  • 23:19treatments and what we can do
  • 23:21about brain metastases in a minute.
  • 23:24But that 40% number,
  • 23:26that seemed high to me.
  • 23:28So is that 40% of people who present
  • 23:31with advanced Melanoma or any Melanoma? NOTE Confidence: 0.928736929523809
  • 23:34For example,
  • 23:35let's suppose you were going
  • 23:37to your dermatologist and you
  • 23:39know they happen to find a small
  • 23:41Melanoma on the back of your hand.
  • 23:44Would you automatically get a brain MRI and
  • 23:47is your risk still 40% of
  • 23:50getting a brain metastases?
  • 23:52No, just to correct that
  • 23:55number really only applies to
  • 23:57those with advanced Melanoma,
  • 23:59so Melanoma that has metastasized
  • 24:02to other areas of the body,
  • 24:05typically, for staging for Melanoma
  • 24:07we really rely on tumor thickness and
  • 24:10whether or not it's gone to lymph nodes.
  • 24:12When it's gone to the lymph nodes,
  • 24:14that makes you a stage three Melanoma
  • 24:17and at the initial visit we usually
  • 24:19scan the brain to just make
  • 24:21sure that it isn't a stage four
  • 24:23Melanoma that we aren't catching,
  • 24:25and under diagnosing what would
  • 24:28have been metastatic disease.
  • 24:30So that 40% really reflects those with
  • 24:33advanced disease that spread beyond
  • 24:36the lymph nodes to other distant sites.
  • 24:39Got it and so if you do have a brain
  • 24:42met it could be asymptomatic.
  • 24:45It could be picked up on an MRI or it
  • 24:48could be symptomatic at presentation.
  • 24:50Tell us a little bit more about how exactly
  • 24:55you treat these patients?
  • 25:00So if you presented with symptoms are
  • 25:04you likely to resolve those symptoms?
  • 25:06How good are our treatments?
  • 25:10The treatments themselves over the past
  • 25:13five years have just magically improved.
  • 25:16Not only do we have better systemic therapies
  • 25:19that we know are effective in the brain,
  • 25:22but we also are better at timing in terms
  • 25:25of when to go in and resect symptomatic
  • 25:29brain metastases or radiate them in
  • 25:32conjunction with her systemic therapies.
  • 25:35So, for example,
  • 25:36if a patient presents to the emergency room
  • 25:40with nausea, vomiting,
  • 25:41some dizziness and balance issues,
  • 25:44they get a brain scan in the emergency room
  • 25:47are found to have new lesions in the brain,
  • 25:50if those lesions are large and associated
  • 25:53with significant edema, and that is
  • 25:55what's contributing to the symptoms,
  • 25:57oftentimes we have to get our
  • 26:00neurosurgery colleagues involved to
  • 26:02rapidly address that lesion and
  • 26:04the most rapid way is via surgery.
  • 26:07You know, it's a morbid procedure,
  • 26:08but the outcomes are typically
  • 26:10very good and people have
  • 26:12a very fast recovery.
  • 26:13If, for example,
  • 26:15the lesion is amenable to what we
  • 26:19call stereotactic radiosurgery,
  • 26:21which is very high radiation but
  • 26:24very focused radiation to try to
  • 26:26spare the normal surrounding brain
  • 26:28tissue and therefore limit the side
  • 26:31effects of radiation in the brain,
  • 26:33that itself is also a very effective therapy.
  • 26:36It's considered definitive, however,
  • 26:38it can only really be treated
  • 26:41for lesions that are less than 3 centimeters,
  • 26:44if you have a lesion greater
  • 26:46than 3 centimeters,
  • 26:46surgery is the best option.
  • 26:49If you have multiple lesions,
  • 26:51basically multiple small lesions,
  • 26:53too many to be individually treated
  • 26:56with what we call stereotactic
  • 26:59radiosurgery or gamma knife,
  • 27:01then the next option is whole
  • 27:04brain radiation which used to be very
  • 27:07neurotoxic long term because these patients
  • 27:10would develop cognitive decline later on.
  • 27:13Memory issues very similar to dementia.
  • 27:17Nowadays we have additional options
  • 27:19where we can spare the hippocampus.
  • 27:21This learning and memory center
  • 27:23in our brain and so we can try to
  • 27:26avoid some of these late chronic
  • 27:29sequella of radiation therapy.
  • 27:31Other options are to actually use some
  • 27:33of the drugs that have been known to be
  • 27:36effective in treating Alzheimer's patients
  • 27:38while they get whole brain radiation to try
  • 27:41to have a neuroprotective effect to spare
  • 27:44the normal brain from receiving
  • 27:46some of the detrimental long
  • 27:49term side effects of radiation.
  • 27:51I mean it sounds like there's
  • 27:53a lot of potential for
  • 27:55therapies for brain metastases,
  • 27:57but just in our last 30 seconds.
  • 28:00So if you have a brain
  • 28:02metastasis and it's been treated,
  • 28:04what's your overall prognosis?
  • 28:06So we're finding with the combination
  • 28:09of radiation and immune therapies,
  • 28:11prognosis can be actually very good.
  • 28:14Before it was three to six months
  • 28:16for anyone with brain metastases.
  • 28:18Now we're talking years out.
  • 28:21If you have a tumor that
  • 28:23responds to these treatments,
  • 28:24and so the overall survival,
  • 28:26the prognosis is much more bright
  • 28:28than what it was ten years ago.
  • 28:31Doctor Thuy Tran is an instructor
  • 28:33of medicine in medical oncology
  • 28:35at the Yale School of Medicine.
  • 28:37If you have questions,
  • 28:38the address is cancer answers at
  • 28:41yale.edu and past editions of the
  • 28:43program are available in audio and
  • 28:46written form at yalecancercenter.org.
  • 28:47We hope you'll join us next week to
  • 28:50learn more about the fight against
  • 28:52cancer here on Connecticut Public
  • 28:54radio funding for Yale Cancer
  • 28:55Answers is provided by Smilow
  • 28:57Cancer Hospital and AstraZeneca.