Yale Ventures and Funding Opportunities

Name: Yale Ventures and Funding Opportunities
Uploaded: 2022-12-09T02:26:31.97Z
Duration: 1 h 31 min 30 s
Description: December 2, 2022 Presenters: David Lewin, PhD, Director of Business Development at Yale Ventures Panelists: W. Mark Saltzman, PhD Goizueta Foundation Professor of Biomedical Engineering and Department Chair of Biomedical Engineering Naftali Kaminski, MD, Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Professor of Medicine and Section Chief, Pulmonary, Critical Care & Sleep Medicine

December 09, 2022

December 2, 2022

Presenters:
David Lewin, PhD, Director of Business Development at Yale Ventures

Panelists:
W. Mark Saltzman, PhD Goizueta Foundation Professor of Biomedical Engineering and Department Chair of Biomedical Engineering
Naftali Kaminski, MD, Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Professor of Medicine and Section Chief, Pulmonary, Critical Care & Sleep Medicine

Information

ID: 9262
To Cite: DCA Citation Guide

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00:00All right. Thanks everybody for
00:02being here today. I would just
00:05like to give a brief introduction.
00:08So we're going to be discussing the.
00:11Interface between academia and industry,
00:14which is maybe something that we don't
00:16all naturally know how to navigate.
00:17So I think this should be a really a
00:19fun and informative session for us.
00:21And we're going to have three
00:23people speaking today.
00:24The first one is David Lewin,
00:26who is the director of Business
00:28Development at Yale Ventures.
00:30So he has over 15 years of business
00:33development and has been in critical in
00:38establishing multiple ventures through Yale.
00:41Including uh coltan pharmaceuticals,
00:43biohaven pharmaceuticals,
00:44I know design Pharma and Cleo
00:47Pharmaceuticals.
00:49So he'll be talking 1st and then
00:51after that he will be followed by
00:54Mark Saltzman who is a professor
00:57of biomedical engineering,
00:58CMP and chemical engineering
01:02and and then also we will have a
01:04Naftali Kaminski who is a professor
01:07of medicine and and and and.
01:11A member at Beringer Ingelheim
01:14Pharmaceuticals. All right.
01:16So I'll go ahead and turn it over to you.
01:18Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.
01:19I just I think the the format is
01:21going to be that I'm going to present
01:24some basic underlying principles and
01:26practices of how Yale interacts with
01:28the commercial community as partners.
01:30And then we're going to have a sort
01:33of open session of discussion with
01:35the with with Mark and Natalie.
01:37I don't think they're presenting.
01:39So to that end just very briefly.
01:42My background is perfect for
01:44business development and biotech.
01:46I have a PhD in cell biology from from Yale.
01:50And I went to industry briefly
01:53maybe 70 years,
01:54got the bug for the commercial
01:56side of science.
01:57And so that's what I bring back to
01:59Yale as do many of my colleagues who
02:01work in the in the business office.
02:04So we're, we're.
02:07Interested in science,
02:08but we're passionate about getting
02:09it out into the world.
02:11And so that's really what this is about.
02:12Today is an alternate way in which
02:16Yale takes the information it creates
02:19and disseminates it into somewhat
02:21tangible way out into the community.
02:27No, it had been working a moment ago.
02:32OK. So very briefly.
02:35I'm going to cover a few things.
02:37A brief introduction to
02:38you about Yale Ventures,
02:40which is a which I'll talk about a moment,
02:43how Yale harmonizes the needs of an
02:46academic environment and an academic
02:48mission with that of a commercial mission.
02:50You know some basic concepts about what
02:53is a patent because that's the primary
02:56asset that's transacted upon when we
02:59are transitioning from an academic
03:01research model to one where we're.
03:05Reducing it to something of
03:08commercial value or for value
03:10patients or or the community at large.
03:13Not all our technologies are are biomedical,
03:15but I'll focus on that.
03:17I'm also going to tell you a little
03:19bit about what a license is.
03:20A license is a very broad term,
03:22but it's very important to understand
03:25the interplay between the intellectual
03:27property and the permissions that are
03:29granted by a license to our partners.
03:32And those licenses come in many
03:34forms as you'll see.
03:35Some basic concepts on our practices
03:38and and and how we go about reconciling
03:41the potential tensions between a
03:43commercial and non commercial entity.
03:46A brief discussion of Yales investment
03:48and translational support and then
03:50time permitting some case studies
03:52just to give you a feel for the time
03:55and and effort and the sort of pieces
03:57that have to come together in order
03:59to actually take something from the
04:01bench into a commercial setting.
04:03So that's why I'm hoping to convey
04:04to you today.
04:09So. Yale ventures.
04:13Is a new formulation of reorganization of
04:18the entrepreneurial environment at Yale.
04:20It's designed to put under one
04:24umbrella led by Josh Kimball,
04:26sort of the entrepreneurial energy
04:28of the institution and to to take
04:31advantage of the overlaps and synergies,
04:33but also to make sure that the things
04:36that we learn and the successes we
04:38have are shared across the university.
04:40So everybody can benefit from
04:42those those those practices.
04:44And then those successes
04:45where where they happened.
04:46And actually the failures are
04:48actually kind of interesting too.
04:50So a little bit more.
04:52Particular component of Yale
04:54Ventures that that I'm a part of,
04:55which is the business development and
04:58licensing and IT management component.
05:00This is a critical unit for protecting
05:03the intellectual property and
05:05positioning it for partnership.
05:07And I'll talk a little bit about what
05:09that means and how that fits into the
05:11to the overall strategy of of getting.
05:13Yale Innovation or Yale Solutions
05:16out into the world in a manner
05:20that's beyond the academic channels.
05:23And so this group has about 25 people in it.
05:26There's 676 or seven of us who are
05:30business development professionals who
05:32come have come back to the academic
05:35world after being out in commercial setting.
05:38And we,
05:39we bring our scientific knowledge
05:41and experience to partner with your
05:43expertise and deep knowledge of your domains.
05:46And that's sort of the first take
05:47away here is that none of this
05:49works without partnership.
05:50We bring a component, you bring a component.
05:53None of us in the business development
05:55group are ever going to be the world's
05:57expert in your area of expertise,
05:59but that expertise is what is bringing
06:02commercial partners to Yale looking to
06:05access our solutions and that's where
06:07we come in to help with that transition.
06:10And to that end,
06:11Yale invests in that intellectual property
06:13through the people in the office and
06:15also through the protection of Pat's
06:18of intellectual property through patenting.
06:20But that's not the only form of intellectual
06:24property that comes out of Yale.
06:26I've got here a slide that sort of
06:29lists and illustrates the different
06:31kinds of intellectual property that
06:34gets transacted upon that originates from.
06:37The university,
06:37you know,
06:38haven't bowled the ones that are
06:40the most commonly transacted upon.
06:42But it's very important to note
06:43there are other types of intellectual
06:45property that get generated now.
06:46The one that's in Gray is trade secrets,
06:49and that's sort of the first point
06:51of difference between an academic
06:52institution and a commercial entity.
06:54Yale does not have trade secrets.
06:57That's fundamentally anathema to
06:58the mission of the university.
07:00We are in the business of
07:02disseminating knowledge.
07:03Companies retain certain competitive
07:06advantages by not disclosing.
07:09And so one of the things we have
07:11to do is reconcile that fundamental
07:13difference in philosophy.
07:14And we do that through our agreements
07:16where we have confidentiality provisions
07:18or or we don't take in information that
07:21we cannot guarantee that we can protect.
07:24And trade secrets have a whole set of
07:26laws associated with them that are
07:28distinct from the contract law that's
07:30associated with confidentiality.
07:31And I won't go into that.
07:33But the main take away is that there there
07:36is a variety of intellectual property
07:38coming from the institution that has.
07:41Value in many different ways.
07:45So I'm going to take a little bit of time.
07:48To discuss trademarks.
07:49Not because it's something we do a lot of,
07:52but because it's a nice way to
07:55summarize intellectual property
07:57and the concepts of ownership,
07:59and to put it into relatable put
08:02intellectual property into relatable terms.
08:09So you you've all seen The North Face logo?
08:13It's highly recognizable.
08:15It has value because when you see it,
08:18it tells you about a
08:20product and its qualities.
08:22It reminds you of an experience
08:24that you may have had that was made
08:26possible by those clothings you've gone
08:28skiing or hiking or whatever it was.
08:30That logo has meaning and there's
08:33a phrase that N North face has
08:35which is never stop exploring.
08:37And so this paired piece of
08:40intellectual property has value
08:41because it's associated with the.
08:43Product that also is perceived to have value.
08:48So. A trademark, then,
08:49is a symbol or a word or a combination
08:54of things that distinguish one
08:56company's products from all other
08:58products out in the market.
08:59And it has a value now.
09:03You'll hear the term infringement
09:05quite a bit when thinking about
09:08what intellectual property you
09:09may read things in the news about
09:12patent fights and all that,
09:13but it's about infringement,
09:15and you can think of infringement.
09:17In the case of of trademarks and other
09:21forms of intellectual property as a trespass,
09:24right?
09:25So if you think about that North Face logo.
09:27As an acre of land that's owned
09:30and controlled by North Face,
09:32if one abuses that in some way.
09:34It's a trespass onto that acre.
09:38That is owned and controlled by Northwest,
09:40and so an infringement. Is a trespass.
09:44And if you trespass, there are consequences.
09:50So this is a an example
09:52of such an infringement.
09:54There was a pair of of.
10:01The family that started a little
10:03company called the South **** and
10:05they took the logo, they inverted it
10:07and they said never stop relaxing.
10:09And so north face perceived this as
10:11a trespass and took them to court
10:12essentially said you got to stop doing this.
10:14You're infringing because you're
10:16it's it's more than a satire.
10:18You're selling a product similar
10:19to what we sell with in this case
10:21T-shirts or whatever it was.
10:22And so there's this likelihood
10:25of confusion concept and so the
10:28the people behind this.
10:30Where?
10:33Named the Winkleman father and
10:34son and there was a mediated
10:37settlement around April 1st of
10:392011 and and in that settlement
10:41the the Winkelmann family said OK
10:43we'll we'll stop selling these
10:44products and we'll stop infringing.
10:46We'll stop trespassing on your
10:47acre of North Face.
10:52Shortly thereafter, they founded a
10:54company called the **** Face, and this
10:57time North Face was less accommodating.
11:00And the consequences of the trespass were
11:03that they had to pay expenses and fees,
11:06they had to give up their merchandise,
11:07and there was a consequence of monetary
11:10consequence associated with the value or
11:12the of the damages caused by the trespass.
11:14So the important part of this.
11:16Vignette is when you think
11:18about intellectual property,
11:20you need to hopefully think
11:21about it as real estate,
11:22and if you can keep that frame of mind.
11:25Then it becomes much easier to understand
11:27what rights are being granted with patents
11:29or other forms of intellectual property.
11:32And subsequently,
11:33when one thinks about components of
11:36protections of intellectual property,
11:37you can think of that as fences
11:39around that acre licenses as gates,
11:41and the rights granted as
11:42the paths within that acre.
11:46OK. So what kind of acres
11:48do we have at Yale now?
11:50What do we typically see as
11:52forms of intellectual property?
11:54I'm not going to read you this list.
11:55We see all sorts of things.
11:57And so as I said earlier,
11:59the people in the business development group
12:01are not experts in any of these fields.
12:04And but where our talents lie is
12:06being able to partner and bring
12:08together the pieces necessary to get
12:11these solutions out into the world.
12:13And to do that,
12:15we typically protect those
12:17solutions by filing patents.
12:24So patents, what are they?
12:28And why do we protect them?
12:29Why do we protect intellectual property?
12:31And how do we balance the commercial
12:33needs of partners with the academic needs?
12:35And so the way we do this
12:37and why we do this is to.
12:39Protect our partners who are going to
12:42take financial risks and time related
12:44risks and resource related risks to
12:46take a Yale piece of intellectual
12:49property and add value to it.
12:51Make it useful to a consumer.
12:55Now to do that we also have
12:57to balance our own concerns,
12:59which are that we don't restrict rights
13:02for further research and where possible,
13:05we promote the access to
13:08essential technologies.
13:09So it still begs the question,
13:11what is a patent?
13:14So patent. Is a constitutionally
13:18granted monopoly.
13:20And this is important because ultimately
13:23the laws governing intellectual property
13:26are adjudicated by the Supreme Court
13:28because it is a constitutional right.
13:31And. That right is a monopoly
13:35granted to an inventor.
13:37To take advantage of their
13:39creativity for a period of time.
13:41But there's an exchange in
13:44order to get that right.
13:46You have to teach the
13:48community your invention,
13:49and the idea is that if you teach
13:52everybody how to do your invention.
13:54And you show that your acre has value.
13:57People are going to want to find ways
14:00to access that value and they either do
14:03it through contractual relationships
14:04or they will try to innovate around it.
14:07Work OK.
14:09And that's the idea that that
14:11intellectual property drives innovation,
14:12once that intellectual property
14:14has been shown to have value.
14:16And it's that value that attracts
14:19our partners.
14:20And the other important thing
14:21to keep in mind,
14:21and again thinking about
14:23real estate and property,
14:24is that it's a negative right.
14:26That means you have the right
14:28to exclude people from your
14:30intellectual property space.
14:32If they come in without permission,
14:34that's again infringement.
14:36That's a trespass on your acre.
14:39And the other important thing in mind
14:41is just because you have a patent
14:43and you have this control over the
14:45acre doesn't mean you necessarily can
14:47do everything claimed by that patent.
14:49There are regulatory barriers
14:50and also it's possible that there
14:52are people who have intellectual
14:54property that surround your
14:55own intellectual property,
14:57and you can't access your acre without
14:59entering a relationship with those
15:00who own the intellectual property
15:02or the acreage around your own acre.
15:03And that's what drives business
15:06solutions to these kinds of
15:08overlapping or complementary
15:10pieces of intellectual property.
15:14So far so good. Any questions?
15:17I do not have a real estate
15:19license, by the way.
15:22So what's patentable?
15:25It's a list of things
15:26here. Most commonly,
15:27the types of things that that Yale files
15:31patents upon are compositions of matter.
15:34And methods of use of matter.
15:36And it's listed there as machines,
15:38but that includes devices,
15:39things that one might be able to
15:41describe or teach through engineering
15:43drawings or showing prototypes
15:45or beta versions of things.
15:46And the other important piece is that
15:49sometimes it's an improvement of something.
15:52That's non obvious based on what preceded it.
16:01OK, so. Patentability.
16:04What doesn't innovation have to have?
16:06What qualities does an innovation have
16:08to have in order to be patentable?
16:11It has to be novel,
16:12useful and non obvious,
16:14and non obviousness is the
16:15least obvious of those things.
16:17And the only way that I found to sort
16:19of illustrate that idea is to say if
16:21I were to give each of you 10 papers
16:23to read and you go into 10 separate rooms.
16:28Alone, I don't have any of you
16:30are here and you sitting there.
16:32You read all these papers,
16:33and nine of you come out with the same idea.
16:36It's obvious because those of you,
16:38you're all peers,
16:38you're all trained the same way,
16:40you all have the same background,
16:41and you all come to the same conclusion.
16:43That's obvious.
16:44But one of you comes out with something else.
16:48That's something else is not
16:50obvious because nine of your peer,
16:52that person's peers,
16:53came up with the same idea.
16:55And that's the concept of invention.
16:56Invention is about conception,
16:58the recognition that there is something
17:01different and a unique view of what is known.
17:04And what is known are
17:06papers in the literature,
17:08other people's intellectual property,
17:09patents,
17:10products,
17:10problems that are well known.
17:15So in order to get a patent.
17:17Allowed issue to you.
17:18It has to be something that's novel,
17:20useful and non obvious.
17:21And I'll talk to you a little
17:23bit about how you how things
17:25get rendered non obvious and how
17:27that again creates a conflict,
17:29the tension between the
17:31commercial and the academic.
17:32The other important thing
17:33is you have to have it. OK.
17:36And that having of it is is sort
17:39of manifested in your ability to
17:41teach others who are your peers,
17:43meaning those having the same knowledge base?
17:47How to do your invention?
17:50And showing that you actually have
17:52possessed it and done the things that
17:55you claim it has the value to do.
17:58So then the problem is.
18:01We've talked about what we've talked
18:02about sort of philosophically,
18:03what's obvious and what's not obvious.
18:05Well, there are many ways in
18:08which obviousness is proven.
18:09And so if somebody, if, if somebody,
18:11if, if somebody comes out of the
18:1310 of you with this new idea,
18:16but there's an 11th person.
18:19Who wrote some different paper that you
18:21didn't read and it describes your invention.
18:24As the 10th.
18:25Well, at that moment, it's no longer.
18:29Not obvious.
18:30It's obvious because somebody
18:32else read the same papers.
18:34And came up with the same idea.
18:35Or somebody posted something on a web page,
18:37or or gave a talk,
18:39or it's in an abstract,
18:40or you've done it to yourself.
18:42Because you've posted something and prior
18:44to protecting the intellectual property.
18:46I'll come to that process shortly.
18:51So that's called prior art.
18:52That which is already known to
18:54people who are experts in that
18:56art and the term art here is a
18:58sort of a technological space.
19:03So the picture you see there is a
19:08drawing from a patent application.
19:11For an invention that was developed in
19:15order to move a submerged object by
19:18deploying a plethora of buoyant spheres.
19:22And the idea was that if you stick those
19:24spheres into the submerged object,
19:25it's going to move that object.
19:27And then a diver or someone
19:28can come get that you know,
19:30get into that submerged object and
19:32access treasure or remove items and
19:34salvage or whatever the case may be.
19:36Now this patent was never issued
19:38and the reason it was not issued
19:41is that there was prior art.
19:42And the prior art was rather surprising.
19:46Turns out the prior art was in 1930s.
19:48Cartoon of Donald Duck deploying a
19:52plethora of buoyant spheres into a
19:54submerged object for the purpose
19:57of accessing treasure.
19:58And therefore it rendered the invention
20:01described on the left obvious in light
20:04of the existence of the idea on them.
20:06On the right.
20:09Now the lesson here the the not the lesson,
20:12but the the important concept here is.
20:16And that the practical distillation of
20:18that is in order to avoid prior art,
20:20at least your own.
20:21You need to talk to us as soon as
20:24possible or as soon as reasonable when
20:26you start to think you have something,
20:28because we do not want to impede the
20:31primary mission of the university,
20:33which is dissemination of
20:34knowledge through publication.
20:36But we want to give you the opportunity
20:38to protect it if there's something there,
20:41the potential commercial value,
20:42or if your ambitions are to take
20:45your academic ideas and reduce
20:47them to something practical.
20:49Or at least practical to the general public.
20:53So it's really important to us that you speak
20:55with us and we may tell you it's too early.
20:57You'll hear that a lot unfortunately,
20:59but part of the conversation will be,
21:02well, you know,
21:03we've seen some things like that,
21:04but that this seems to be a new solution.
21:06And you know,
21:07when we've spoken to people who are
21:09interested in these kinds of products,
21:10they generally want to know the following.
21:13And you may be doing those experiments.
21:16And so that we begin to be able
21:18to triangulate on an intellectual
21:20property strategy that's harmonized
21:22with the imperative to publish.
21:24Because at the end of the day,
21:25that's the number one activity of the
21:28institution and you won't hear from me.
21:30Don't publish,
21:31I will tell you
21:32if you publish them.
21:35Right then you you make your choices.
21:37OK. OK, so that's prior art and then
21:42again prior art that that we generate
21:45institutionally includes things
21:47you post on the website abstracts,
21:49you submit grant abstracts that
21:52get published for example.
21:54There are many different ways in
21:57which our own normal activities
21:59can be used to challenge the non
22:03obviousness of our own innovations.
22:06I basically want to take a few moments
22:07to kind of give you a sense of the
22:09amount of investment just in a pure
22:11monetary and time way related to the
22:14protection of intellectual property.
22:16This next slide.
22:19So it's, I mean,
22:20I think everybody here has been
22:22through some kind of a thesis
22:23defense or I think everybody's
22:25faculty or or above or postdocs.
22:27This is essentially a thesis defense
22:29that is protracted and expensive
22:31and frustrating in its own way.
22:36It takes time, it takes money,
22:37and it takes effort.
22:39And there's really no guaranteed outcome.
22:41And you don't have a committee
22:43telling you yes if you do this then.
22:45You have to deal with examiners who
22:48look at your patent application and
22:51decide as individuals whether it's
22:54obvious whether it's novel or useful.
22:57And then it's a debate,
22:59negotiation, an argument, a trial,
23:04with examiners at the patent
23:06offices to convince them that you
23:08are entitled to build a fence of a
23:10certain dimension around your acre,
23:12and you may have come in there looking for.
23:15Yellowstone park.
23:16You might leave with these truck park, right?
23:21And it's a negotiation, but you,
23:24you know, if a patent issues,
23:26there'll be a defined fence
23:28around that intellectual property.
23:29So this process starts out relatively
23:32inexpensively in terms of dollars,
23:35although it can be expensive
23:37in terms of expectations.
23:39And so part of what our job in
23:40our office is to say to you,
23:42look, we're going to get started,
23:43but there are lots of ways you're
23:44not going to get Yellowstone.
23:48Meaning that. We're going to ask for a lot,
23:51but we are going to expect that to
23:54be narrowed and we will only get
23:56that which we could demonstrate.
23:58Fits the criteria of patentability
24:00and this process is protracted.
24:02It typically takes three to
24:04four years for a first patent
24:05to issue in a family of patents.
24:07And then there are a series of
24:09things that happen along the
24:11way for continuing prosecution.
24:12And if we're going to prosecute
24:14it in the US only,
24:15it's going to have one level of
24:16expense if we're going to prosecute
24:18outside of the US in addition,
24:20it has additional expenses and
24:22those decisions are commercial
24:24in nature because ultimately.
24:26The purpose of patenting is commercial.
24:29There's no other reason to patent.
24:30It's not a publication.
24:35The sole purpose of the patent is to keep
24:37people out of your intellectual property
24:39space so that you have a period of time
24:42protected in order to make investment,
24:44or have your partners make investment
24:46in order to bring something to market.
24:49And the value of the patent
24:51only manifests well,
24:52the value of had manifests in that it's
24:55it's stakes out your acre so people don't
24:57come into it or are disinclined to trespass.
25:00Or you bring a product to market that's
25:02claimed or covered by that patent and then
25:04you can go after someone for infringement.
25:07That can only happen after the patent issues
25:09and the product is sold by somebody else.
25:13So the take away here is it's a long,
25:15drawn out process.
25:16It's a big investment,
25:17can be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
25:20By the time it's all said and done,
25:21there has to be a pretty good
25:23commercial reason to do it.
25:26Now we will take risks because usually the
25:30research is far ahead of where the market is.
25:33So it's a balancing act to pick things,
25:37lay out a strategy.
25:40Maintain options,
25:40but not do so in a Willy nilly way.
25:44There has to be a more than just
25:45an intellectual property strategy.
25:47There has to be a funding strategy,
25:48a partnering strategy that has to be
25:51a definable product or at least a a
25:54rational product concept to justify this
25:56because all these pieces have to come
25:58together in either in the hands of a
26:00partner that we license to or partner
26:01who's going to spin out a company.
26:08Yes, what percent of what percent of
26:10disclosures come to you and don't
26:12amount to patent or don't amount
26:14to anything further than that?
26:18The inputs are about 250 disclosures a year,
26:22so people who come to us and
26:24say I think I have something.
26:25And then that gets whittled down
26:27through this whole process of
26:29assessing its commercial potential.
26:31We might file patent applications this first
26:34step in the process on maybe 150 of them.
26:40And then of those probably 120
26:42might get converted to what's
26:44called the non provisional where
26:46we're stepping up our investment.
26:48Of those, I think that probably.
26:5510 to 15% actually become partnered licensed.
26:59Somebody says, OK, we think you're right,
27:00you have something here,
27:01we need it, we want it.
27:03And that might happen through through
27:05a license or a new venture might
27:07even be a lower percentage than that.
27:10And of those of those 10 or 15%
27:13that actually get partnered?
27:15Those that actually end up being a
27:17product being protected by those
27:18patents is probably less than 1%.
27:22But part of the value, yeah.
27:23So Michael Singer was here yesterday
27:26and he was asking me what we're doing
27:28to advise our junior faculty on.
27:34Sorry, most of our audience is on zoom.
27:36So Michael Singer yesterday
27:36was here and he was asking
27:38me what we're doing to ensure
27:40that our junior faculty know whether
27:42they have something as patentable.
27:43So you've established these principles here,
27:46but what would be the advice that
27:47you'd give to someone who's working
27:48in the laboratory about what are
27:50the principles that you think they
27:52should be thinking about as they are
27:54considering whether their discovery
27:56is is worth engaging in a disclosure?
27:59Yeah, it's an interesting question.
28:02It's, it's a conversation which
28:03I alluded to earlier.
28:07And the. Whether something is
28:09worth packing on, it's kind of a an
28:12overlapping series of of assessments
28:13about what's already out there.
28:17Is what's being proposed.
28:23Sufficiently novel to overcome what's known.
28:26Having overcome it, is there a?
28:29Desire or an anticipated desire or
28:32conceivable desire that someone might
28:34want to purchase something based
28:35upon that innovation and that's that
28:37becomes a lot of guessing because
28:39that that opportunity to purchase
28:41and what that product looks like
28:44is typically 5 or 10 years out.
28:46In most cases.
28:48From the time we hear about things.
28:51So the advice?
28:54Really is to kind of.
28:58The opportunistic in the sense
28:59of like a Venus Flytrap,
29:00you're going to do what you're going to do,
29:02right? And. Something.
29:04Might be of that something might
29:08trigger that hair on the Venus Flytrap, but.
29:13You can't really bake that,
29:15you know. You know.
29:16You can't really sort of know you
29:17have that until you've had the conversation.
29:19Have a sense of of.
29:21Who else, besides your academic colleagues,
29:24care about that space?
29:26And if they care about,
29:28why do they care about it?
29:31It's a it's a hard it's a hard question
29:34to answer I guess the short answer is just
29:37talk to us you know we will if there's.
29:40Yeah, it's really you need to talk
29:42to us and and and and educate us
29:44about what you're doing as much as
29:46us trying to say OK well great.
29:49You know what is a product look like?
29:51What's the solution sometimes
29:53the question is? Great.
29:55You know, you've you've treated a
29:57cell or you've treated a mouth,
29:59an embryo and a mouse.
30:00What's the clinical trial look like?
30:02Are you going to dose pregnant women?
30:05But it just may be fundamentally
30:07you still have something else to
30:10overcome with the technology in order.
30:13To have it be viable in commercial setting.
30:17Does that answer your question?
30:18I know it's kind of neither here nor there,
30:20but it's it's a.
30:23Yeah, I mean I guess that the IT
30:25really raises the question of whether
30:27we need to have some sort of formal
30:29evaluation process in the course
30:31of mentoring rising faculty where
30:33where we ask the simple question and
30:35and you know I think we haven't,
30:37we haven't at Yale classically been
30:39asking the question of whether there's
30:41something that can be commercialized
30:42from the research that's been that's
30:44been done in our mentoring structures.
30:47So it's just an observation I'm assuming
30:49you play a mentoring role and and so I would.
30:52Encourage you to have those you mentor,
30:55you know.
30:56Come to these events.
30:58Come to Pitch Fest,
30:59which is going to be on December 8th.
31:01I'll tell you about that later,
31:02where faculty are going to be
31:05pitching ideas that are.
31:07Have commercial prospects.
31:09That are going to be then assessed
31:12by venture capital in a live audience
31:15and you get a sense of what that back
31:17and forth is between an innovator
31:19and an investor or an innovator
31:21and a partner and so.
31:25Some of this is self selection.
31:26If someone says no,
31:27I've got to really focus on the,
31:29you know,
31:30XYZ stage of career and that's what
31:32they want to do.
31:32Great.
31:33And then there are some who may feel
31:36that there's value in in in doing
31:38both for their career as well As for.
31:41Demonstration of the utility
31:42of what they're doing.
31:46Yeah. So as a panelist, I'll say that.
31:49One of the reasons we are completely
31:52underperforming in this area is
31:54because we leave it to the grassroots.
31:56Believe it to the grassroots that
31:59it's the responsibility of the
32:01early career or the late career.
32:03Because I bet you we have more than
32:06250 professional patents just to
32:08the School of Medicine per year.
32:11And I bet you that we have more
32:13than 10 that our commercializable.
32:15But we have never done the systemic
32:17approach which actually going
32:18to departments doing retreats.
32:21And actually looking at what
32:24is actually actionable.
32:26As somebody who, at least his career,
32:28didn't battered.
32:29And potentially law actually caused.
32:32Our field the delay in development
32:34because something that wouldn't people
32:36would have if they were protected
32:38people would have commercialized it.
32:40Because they were not protected,
32:41they never went into clinical practice.
32:44I think we're missing something
32:45by throwing it out to investigate.
32:48And I think that our approach
32:50should be completely opposite.
32:51Instead of the investigator coming to you,
32:54you're coming to the investigators.
32:56And to the to the department.
33:00And. Doing this venture retreat,
33:03I I completely agree.
33:04I went to the pharmacology retreat.
33:06I looked at the posters,
33:08many of whom are people I work with,
33:09but also I encountered a
33:12spectacularly interesting poster
33:14on insect fructose receptors.
33:16And I met with that faculty member.
33:18And, you know, so we do that.
33:20But, you know,
33:21there are a finite number of us,
33:23and there's a limit to the
33:25degree that we can, you know,
33:26go to every faculty member.
33:27So it's a balance between
33:30being invited to the retreat.
33:32And being invited to these events
33:35and and encouraging senior faculty
33:37to encourage their mentees,
33:38as was proposed to,
33:40to look at what they're doing
33:43through an unfamiliar lens
33:45until it becomes familiar.
33:53All right.
33:581.
34:01Does.
34:10Going to solve that.
34:13So part of the process today
34:15is to educate researchers on
34:17patentability and what is patent,
34:19what's an inventor and and about the process.
34:21So hopefully referring to
34:24the query in the chat,
34:26this is laying that groundwork.
34:32One of the very important point I
34:34want to make is that inventorship is
34:38distinct and separate from authorship.
34:40Inventorship is a legal concept.
34:44It's a matter of law,
34:45and if you get it wrong.
34:47It can have negative impacts
34:49on the intellectual property,
34:50either by leaving if you've left
34:51someone off or you've put someone on,
34:53you shouldn't be.
34:54And fortunately for me,
34:56I don't have to make that call.
34:57We have lawyers who interview
34:59inventors and tell us, OK,
35:00these people have made a contribution
35:03that rises to the level of Inventorship,
35:06and I'll leave it at that because
35:09I want to make sure we have enough
35:11time to have the panel. So.
35:15Just to finish up on the on the.
35:24Pats themselves are are. Formalized
35:27documents that have key components.
35:30This patent here describes and claims
35:32and was issued to protect an invention
35:35to prevent the second shark bite.
35:40And even though this patent is
35:42ridiculous and no product ever got
35:44to market based on this second
35:46shark bite prevention technique.
35:49It has all the components that any
35:51patent would have for a cure for cancer.
35:54Or cure for any other disease or a
35:56medical device, or whatever it may be.
35:59But the important part of the patent,
36:02the business end of the patent.
36:04Is defense created by the claims?
36:08The claims are the fence around your acre.
36:11And unless someone trespasses into your
36:14acre by crossing that claim boundary.
36:18They are not infringing,
36:19they are not trespass and so the
36:22argument that whole multi year exercise.
36:24With the examiner is to make sure
36:27try to get that fence as far out from
36:30the center of your acre as possible.
36:35So now I want to briefly speak
36:37about licenses, which are you
36:39can think about as the the gates.
36:42Into that acre and within the licenses
36:44are the terms that define the path that
36:47a person can walk within that acre.
36:52OK, so licenses are?
36:56Formalized documents usually,
36:58but not always. Has anyone here
37:00ever signed a license themselves?
37:04All of you have every one of you,
37:06multiple times.
37:07Every time you click agree on
37:09your Apple or Samsung update,
37:11you're signing a license when
37:13you receive a grant.
37:15You're signing a contract.
37:19So you encounter them all the time.
37:21They come in different forms,
37:22but fundamentally their permission.
37:25And that permission.
37:26It is frequently preceded by
37:28a vast amount of negotiation
37:30because the parties are trying
37:33to define both the value of your
37:35acre and the degree to which.
37:38It can be wandered through.
37:41And what are the rules
37:42for staying on the path?
37:46And so the. The license itself is a
37:50story that brings these pieces together.
37:54It describes the intellectual
37:56property and the parties.
37:58It has the beginning. It has an end.
38:02It has drama in the sense of
38:04milestones need to be achieved or not,
38:07in which case the thing might get terminated.
38:10There's diligence.
38:11You have to perform.
38:12The character has to achieve its goals.
38:14Hit its quest right.
38:18If there's success, it gets shared.
38:25And eventually it ends. And it's ended.
38:29It ends typically when the patent life ends.
38:31And at the very beginning I told you
38:33that a patent grants or intellectual
38:34property has a monopoly function,
38:36but that monopoly function has an end.
38:39And that's the end.
38:41That can end because someone
38:42violated the terms of the agreement,
38:44or it can end because the patent expires.
38:46Or it can end because it
38:48wasn't a product after all,
38:49and it's not worth any further.
38:51But it's a story.
38:52The license is a story.
38:53The pieces fit together.
38:58And it describes whether or not you
39:01can enter that gate, walk down a path,
39:04and you're only permitted to go to the
39:06far left corner and have a picnic,
39:07or you're allowed to wander around the
39:09entire acre and do whatever you want.
39:11It just depends on how the value is
39:14perceived and what the rules are
39:16within that acre and what you get in
39:19exchange for granting those rights.
39:22So I'm going to summarize the whole
39:24preceding part of what I told you
39:25in this slide, which is a nice
39:27picture of some private property.
39:29There's no hunting, there's no trespassing.
39:30You can't go in, OK?
39:33And in the other case it's.
39:36A piece of property where someone says yes,
39:37you can come in.
39:38You got to stay on the path,
39:40you got to pick up your litter.
39:42You can't camp.
39:44Leave it as you found it.
39:47Whatever the rules may be,
39:47but this is essentially intellectual
39:49property and licensing in one slide.
39:52So if you can just think about the
39:54electric property and the licensing
39:55and the context of real estate,
39:57you're way ahead of the game.
39:59So what kind of licenses do you encounter
40:02in your careers and and in your activities?
40:05As academics?
40:06I already mentioned grants.
40:09You proposed to the federal government.
40:11A set of specific games.
40:14And you are given that award
40:18to do those things.
40:20You can't take that money and go
40:22do something completely different,
40:23right?
40:23That's why the office is sponsoring projects
40:26used to be called grants and contracts.
40:29The types of agreements that our office is
40:31involved if are confidentiality agreements,
40:33which is usually the first type of
40:35agreement in a relationship between
40:37US and the commercial entity.
40:39You do licenses,
40:40granting rights,
40:41sponsored research agreements or something
40:43that you are probably familiar with,
40:46collaboration agreements and
40:47material transfer agreements,
40:48and these are really important.
40:50Umm.
40:51Normally when I'm speaking to graduate
40:53students or postdocs or junior faculty
40:56who haven't been through this process.
40:58As much as you probably have.
41:01Material transfer agreements.
41:04Are high risk tended can
41:06be a high risk for partner?
41:09Pfizer is not going to give you their
41:11phase three compound that you put in.
41:12Your specific aim is essential
41:14for achieving those aims because
41:16they've put 5000 two hundred
41:18$300 million into something.
41:19So you should have a contingency
41:21plan because the process and the
41:23time associated with negotiating
41:24this material transfer agreements.
41:26It's protracted,
41:27it's protracted because the
41:29complexity and risk are requirement
41:32to protect our academic rights,
41:34but recognize the risks being
41:36taken to partner with and send
41:38you something they've invested in.
41:39And unfortunately,
41:40the only two people who do MTA's
41:43at Yale for the most part,
41:45and they do about four or 500A year.
41:47It just takes a lot of time.
41:49So contingencies are important.
41:51So actually,
41:52if you really want to ask them
41:54to hire more MTA people,
41:55really speed things up.
41:58And these pieces fit
41:59together very frequently,
42:00right, you know? I, you know,
42:03I have mercy on Don Wiggan.
42:05I'm sure you all know that name,
42:06because he's the guy, right?
42:09He's doing hundreds and hundreds
42:10and hundreds of these things.
42:13So, you know, just think about or advise
42:16your mentees about contingency planning
42:19if if there's a critical reagent.
42:22And also sometimes at the end of the day,
42:24it's cheaper to just have the stuff made.
42:26And to try and save the $5000 at the cost
42:29of 6 or 12 months to get it for free.
42:41So I've been saying this a
42:43bit early. Communication.
42:47Interacting with us it's
42:49critical for for success.
42:52I'm note as I said,
42:53none of us are experts in in
42:54your areas of expertise and what
42:56we're bringing to the table is
42:57a complementary set of skills.
43:01Umm. We license some things because
43:05the technology. Has a use but.
43:08It's not enough by itself to justify
43:11a whole venture, a whole new company.
43:15And then other times we do startups
43:18because it's something which.
43:19Is groundbreaking needs that kind
43:21of focus or has the ability to
43:24do more than a partner can do?
43:26It's beyond the its value and utility
43:29exceeds the needs and scope and
43:31capabilities and investment that
43:32a partner can bring for a single
43:35project using that technology.
43:40So in the process itself is iterative
43:44and we will go out with an idea and we
43:46will hear the same critique from 5 or
43:486 VC's and five or six biotechs and we
43:51will having done this together with you.
43:54You'll say, OK, alright,
43:55maybe next time I'm doing this
43:57experiment I can add this idea or try
44:00that and address this constant thorn
44:02in the commercialization side, right?
44:04You know, there are many people who have
44:07compounds that work fabulously in cells.
44:09But until you dose the mouse and show,
44:12it's orally bioavailable because
44:14all the other drugs on the market
44:17are orally bioavailable.
44:19It's not going to get the same
44:20attention and it's just a translational,
44:22sad truth.
44:23Because people are choosing where
44:25to risk their resources,
44:27they're going to risk them where we have
44:30mitigated that risk to a reasonable extent.
44:35And so to solve that problem
44:38to the degree that we can,
44:40Yale has a variety of resources to try
44:44and sort of bridge this translational
44:46barrier to answer the gating questions
44:49that we hear from potential partners.
44:53A wordy slide, you can ignore most
44:54of it other than the main bullets,
44:56which is we have the logic fund,
44:57which is a substantial fund over 20,
44:59I think $25 million that
45:02is dedicated to answering.
45:07Those gating questions?
45:09That may not be amenable meaning fundable.
45:13By federal government or or foundations.
45:19We encourage you to come to
45:21the Yale Innovation Summit.
45:22We have 1000 people show up,
45:24and if you may not be presenting something,
45:26you'll be meeting people and seeing
45:29how they are conveying their ideas
45:32in a commercial context. We have.
45:37Infrastructure for training.
45:38So if you have junior faculty who
45:41are interested in this process.
45:43Encourage you to to say, hey, you know,
45:46bring your ideas to us and and
45:48we'll see if we can find an advisor,
45:51such as an entrepreneur and residence.
45:52These are people who have a connection to
45:54Yale's desire to do something for Yale,
45:56to interact with faculty who are
45:59on the cutting edge and advise
46:02them based on the IR experience.
46:04But what do you need to know in
46:07order to move something forward?
46:10And I think this is probably my last slide,
46:14which is we have coming up on December 8th.
46:17The life Science pitch fest.
46:20It's going to be in the Alexion building.
46:22There'll be about 250 to 300 people there,
46:25the majority of whom are going to be
46:27from industry and venture capital.
46:29And the faculty presenters are
46:31listed on this website.
46:33You can get a sense of the types
46:35of projects that are going to be
46:37pitched and what's going to be mind
46:38boggling to you is they're going
46:40to take two decades worth of work.
46:43Compress it down to 5 minutes
46:45to the essential Nuggets.
46:47To get that first.
46:49Idea out there?
46:51In a clear and concise way to a
46:54commercial audience for the sole purpose
46:56of getting the 30 minute meeting.
46:59But they have to tell a story that's
47:02concise and focusing on the endpoint
47:04value that they're predicting exists.
47:07So I encourage you to come,
47:09I encourage you to encourage your mentees,
47:11students, postdocs to register
47:13and and get a feel for it.
47:15And frankly,
47:18it's rare that you might see a faculty
47:20member under 6 Extreme duress having
47:22to get everything down to five minutes
47:24and there might be some shut in Freud
47:26it with regard to your thesis defense,
47:28so.
47:28With that,
47:29I think we have about 1/2 hour 35
47:33minutes to have a panel discussion
47:35and thank you for your attention.
47:49So I guess we'll ask you guys to to
47:52come up and it's my understanding that
47:55you have free you could chat about
47:58your experiences. That's the idea.
48:02And then we'll take a few minutes
48:04for each of you to do that and
48:05then we'll open things up for
48:07questions. That sounds good.
48:12Mark, do you want to start?
48:15Fessor of chemical and biomedical
48:18engineering is this live?
48:20Is it working? Oh, it's
48:21on. It's not broadcasting here, right?
48:23It's just over there, right? Yeah. Used
48:27to hearing some feedback when I started.
48:30I'm a professor of chemical and
48:32biomedical engineering here.
48:33Been at Yale for 20 years,
48:36was a faculty member at Cornell and
48:38Johns Hopkins before I came here.
48:40So altogether been a faculty member
48:43for 35 years doing research mainly on
48:47developing new materials for drug delivery.
48:50So implants, coatings,
48:52but more recently nanoparticles that can
48:56deliver drugs in a sort of targeted that
48:58way and so to say a little bit about.
49:00The reason why I'm sitting here,
49:02I have a lot of experience from all those
49:05institutions with the technology transfer,
49:07with the with filing invention disclosures,
49:12working through the process of getting
49:14patents and and then trying to identify
49:17people who are going to carry those those
49:20those patents forward into real products.
49:23So today I I'm, I have three startup
49:28companies that I'm working on.
49:31The various stages,
49:31I'd be happy to talk about that
49:33and the differences between them.
49:35I have a number of collaborations with
49:38industry and including sponsored research
49:41from industry and have over the course
49:45of my career collaborated with industry,
49:47had them license patents and.
49:50Also as I mentioned,
49:52started a company so could
49:54talk at least about my
49:55experience in those spaces.
49:56And I'll just emphasize what Dave
49:59said that I've had a very fruitful
50:01interactions with what used to
50:03be OCR and now in Yale Ventures.
50:06My main contact there is John fuses
50:08and you should start having those
50:12conversations with people in Yale Ventures.
50:14Find out who your contact person
50:16will be when you have a license
50:18to and they will be very helpful.
50:24Yeah, I'm, I'm Natalie and I
50:26won't mention first that if you
50:28want to be invited to this forum
50:30you have to live in Westville.
50:32So we're neighbors, but just quickly.
50:37So I'm going to put on our physician
50:39by training do mostly my main research
50:42is broken after this is you may say
50:44that what I do is discovery science.
50:47So we profile a lot of stuff and
50:48then we come up with mechanistic
50:50apotheosis and we'll do the animal or.
50:53Soul culture
50:53experiments and and naturally this is very.
50:59Amenable basically, to patenting,
51:01because we find new things all
51:03the time and they're all Israel.
51:06You can also say that I'm a little bit
51:09of an accidental or reluctant adventure.
51:12I literally did not think
51:13that this was my job.
51:14When I started my career and
51:16over the years interacted,
51:18I was I trained in Israel.
51:21The Research Fellowship at UCSF.
51:24Then after going back to Israel was brought
51:28back to University of Pittsburgh and 10
51:31years ago to Yale and actually made several.
51:34One is key discoveries but also key ventures.
51:38And one of the interesting things
51:39that that's what I was referring to,
51:41one of my first discoveries
51:43was basically a biomarker.
51:45Oh, which is highly validated.
51:47But we didn't bother to even
51:49think of protecting it.
51:50It wasn't.
51:50It was a set of parameters so easily
51:53parted and we just didn't do it.
51:57And. That's why it's not available
51:59to patients today, right,
52:01because there's literally there's
52:02no been reason to commercialize it.
52:05So I think that's sort of my driver to
52:07have these discussions get involved.
52:08I Love Actually with all the
52:11other administrative office,
52:12I will say that OCR, Oh yeah,
52:14which is is the best.
52:17And and by far be parking.
52:22You definitely need contracts. And even,
52:26and I cook and I really like it. So
52:28definitely this is a this is
52:30a group that's really nice to
52:31interact with and available,
52:33helpful, positive you can
52:35have to meet your mentees very safely.
52:39It's really a good group to work with.
52:44So we get one question and sort of how
52:46do you balance publication promotion
52:50and you know patents? You know,
52:54as to faculty member who who
52:56promotions very important. However
52:58you sort of found that balance. So
53:02that's a great question and I didn't
53:04think about it very much when I was
53:06an assistant professor because I just
53:07wanted to publish and I so I missed some
53:09opportunities to to patent things as well.
53:13But part of it for me was not
53:15understanding really the process well
53:18enough and and now we think about
53:21patenting almost every with almost
53:23every paper that we write because
53:26there's some level of of innovation
53:29there just in the nature of what.
53:31We do if we're making some new chemicals,
53:33new polymer for example,
53:35for for a drug delivery system.
53:38Then and and you just have to think
53:42ahead and go through the process of
53:45talking to to the folks in the Yale
53:47ventures about you know here I have
53:49this idea you can't wait till the
53:50day you're submitting the paper.
53:52But when you start writing when you
53:54start writing the paper think about
53:56whether there's something in here
53:57that might be valuable to protect
53:59and and and have the conversations
54:01and and by the time the paper is
54:03published hopefully if there is
54:05something in there the patent has
54:06also been the provisional patents
54:08also been filed and so that.
54:09When you,
54:10when you're in that,
54:11once you have that mindset
54:13and feel that it's pretty,
54:14it doesn't really add much burden
54:16to the process of publishing.
54:21The burden comes if you wait and
54:23then you have to struggle and try to,
54:25you know, fit everything in or delay your
54:28publication and that's uncomfortable.
54:30So, and I over the years I I've I was a
54:35department chair for 12 years so I was
54:37presenting a promotion cases to tenure.
54:42The committees and and over the past years
54:46that I've been here, I've noticed that.
54:49While patent does not a conventional
54:51kind of a publication, it is a,
54:53it is a, it is a real,
54:55it is a real publication in the sense
54:57that it's online and it's published
54:59and often contains information that's
55:01not in your other publications.
55:03And it's also evidence that you went
55:05through this intellectual process
55:07of demonstrating that
55:08what you published in a paper
55:10also had potential commercial value
55:12and was unique and and all the other
55:15aspects that Dave mentioned about
55:17patents and so the tenure committees.
55:19I think increasingly,
55:20and I'd be interested in your
55:22view of this as well,
55:23recognize patents as a intellectual
55:26contribution and it's not ignored
55:30in the way that I think it might
55:33have been diminished in 2003
55:35when I first started doing that.
55:38So I think it's all possible that
55:40that process is all possible
55:42to do and compatible with being
55:44a faculty member, even
55:45a junior faculty. I
55:47feel the same, I think. I don't
55:50think we ever had a paper delayed
55:52because of the need to pass in and.
55:57Our approach in the lab is relatively simple.
55:59You know when you have free.
56:01Or four figures, which means you started
56:04summarize your paper and you know
56:06you're going to be submitting in three
56:07to four months like to just a few more
56:10experiments that are messed up with you.
56:12That's where we start to have the discussion.
56:13Is that protectable? Is it worth it?
56:17And and I've become more and
56:20more actually decentralized.
56:21It used to be only me
56:23and the love and now I actually encourage.
56:26Early I do protect the OCR people,
56:28so I don't want them to be overwhelmed,
56:30but I encourage, I'm sure people
56:33who had their original observation
56:34sometimes to do the exploration,
56:35so I don't think that's a big issue.
56:41Definitely in the translational
56:44clinical departments.
56:45They used to completely ignore.
56:47Even when I arrived there was ten years ago.
56:50They ignored patterns in the last few years.
56:55They really, you know, the pythons
56:57are actually the suitables.
56:58You'll see them in multiple places. So
57:01and in my view,
57:03a pattern that has been executed
57:06is actually probably more.
57:07Has a little bit more of a,
57:10I don't know, extending
57:11that you can finish things then.
57:15Than the recent paper to some extent.
57:23Hi, I'm rashan. I'm an assistant
57:25professor of neurology. So
57:28I have two questions for you
57:30from 2/1 for Mark Salzman and
57:33one for David Williams. So one
57:35thing is about in the David Winsor
57:37presentation is that I saw one
57:40in one slide that saying that not all
57:42the parents have been accepted by year.
57:45So I want to know more about that
57:48why all of them are not being
57:50pursued through year? Ohh what
57:52are the consequences of what are
57:54the things that's going to happen
57:56if it is not a patented under Yale?
57:58And the second thing is
58:00about Mark Salzman's companies.
58:03So what is the actual role after
58:05making all these three companies?
58:08So what is actually your
58:09role there or are you going
58:10to, because I know that you have
58:12the right grants, you had mentor
58:14undergrads and I mean both dogs and
58:17everybody. So I know it's a busy life,
58:20but what is the actual role between the.
58:23The companies you have and here here.
58:30And that's it. To in person.
58:38In a way you can think about
58:41the patenting processes and
58:42investment and as I mentioned.
58:45It's an investment to protecting a
58:47space that has commercial utility.
58:50And so the decision. Not to proceed.
58:58Ideally, not always,
59:00but ideally is data-driven.
59:02It's just data you're not used to.
59:05And usually the data is qualitative and
59:08the opinion of people who have their
59:10own fixed ideas and what value is.
59:13So. The money decides.
59:17And the VC's just aren't going
59:19to invest in what you do.
59:21Then we look for maybe also looking
59:25to biotechs that already exist
59:27who might need your solution.
59:31But if they say no.
59:34Then we try and find out why in both cases,
59:37which comes back to this idea
59:39that if you hear enough times,
59:41you better save a mouse before you
59:43come knocking on the door again.
59:45Let's find a way to save a mouse.
59:49And if you save the mouse,
59:51then the next question will always be,
59:52well, that's great, but you know,
59:55drugs in this class or whatever
59:57are orally bioavailable.
59:58What's the PK look like
59:59when you delivered orally?
01:00:00As the next says,
01:00:02it's this constant moving set of.
01:00:05Of Gates to move the project
01:00:08forward and at some point.
01:00:10They're either aren't the resources,
01:00:12or the experiments don't work out,
01:00:14or you have to go back to the
01:00:16drawing board and there's no reason
01:00:18to continue to prosecute the
01:00:20original patent filing because.
01:00:21It's going down a path.
01:00:23That doesn't have isn't going to
01:00:26represent what the product might look like.
01:00:28And so part of this communication,
01:00:30I emphasized the early communication.
01:00:32You heard emphasis of early communication.
01:00:35It doesn't.
01:00:35It's not intended to understate the
01:00:38requirement for ongoing communication.
01:00:40On my part to tell you or for you
01:00:43to be involved in the interaction
01:00:46with companies so that you can hear,
01:00:48it's not my opinion that it has to be
01:00:50orally bioavailable, it's the markets.
01:00:52And it's just a different kind of market.
01:00:54When you submit grants,
01:00:56you're entering the market
01:00:59of competing ideas.
01:01:00And this is just a different
01:01:02version of competing ideas.
01:01:03And we make those choices.
01:01:08As much as possible based on that data.
01:01:12Sometimes that's just not available.
01:01:16But that's primarily why
01:01:17we would stop prosecution.
01:01:19So there's just no clear
01:01:21commercial hypothesis,
01:01:22there's no financing hypothesis and
01:01:23it's not quite clear what's going
01:01:25to be put in a bottle and sold.
01:01:31And I think your other question
01:01:33with regards to, OK, now you
01:01:34have a company or a relationship,
01:01:36what's the workload and what are you doing?
01:01:39So, so different roles
01:01:40depending on the situation,
01:01:42but so the the three I mentioned,
01:01:44they're all startup companies.
01:01:46And so typically you know you have an idea,
01:01:48you have your laboratory,
01:01:49you have some patents,
01:01:51you published a a flashy paper
01:01:54demonstrating the idea and and you
01:01:56decide you're going to start a company.
01:01:59And so you are a founder of the
01:02:01company because you're going to do
01:02:03the work of starting the company.
01:02:04Now you're going to have to
01:02:06collect other people to help you
01:02:07to do that you need probably.
01:02:08People are gonna give you money
01:02:10and you you need people to help
01:02:12manage the company after it started.
01:02:13And so you might do that with some other
01:02:16partners and so you'd be a cofounder.
01:02:18So the effort of that is the
01:02:20effort of that that when you're
01:02:22starting up it's it's hard to
01:02:24predict what it will be.
01:02:26I think the more compelling
01:02:28the idea the easier it is.
01:02:31But then the company gets formed and
01:02:32typically you would be a consultant to
01:02:35the company because they're going to
01:02:37need your input in order to advance.
01:02:39And to transfer the technology
01:02:41out of your laboratory you you
01:02:44could on one other companies I'm a
01:02:46member of the Board of Directors,
01:02:47so I'm, I'm part of the group that's
01:02:50directing the work of the company.
01:02:55I guess those are the
01:02:56most common roles. So in
01:03:00terms of time management,
01:03:01you have an obligation to manage your
01:03:04total time spent on external activities
01:03:06because of the faculty handbook,
01:03:08you're allowed to work on
01:03:10external project external,
01:03:12external to Yale for up to one day a week.
01:03:14And so that's an important part of the,
01:03:16one important part of the conflict
01:03:18of interest forms that you fill out
01:03:21whenever you have some kind of a
01:03:23consulting arrangement with the.
01:03:25External.
01:03:27Is it defining how how many hours
01:03:30you're gonna work on it per?
01:03:32Year and making your through your
01:03:34total activity doesn't add up to
01:03:36more than a certain amount that that
01:03:38that sort of one day week.
01:03:43You you can't have a formal
01:03:45role in the company beyond the
01:03:48director consultant though.
01:03:51But, but then some people take a
01:03:53year or two years off to sort of get
01:03:55the company off the ground, right?
01:03:59Certainly our faculty have
01:04:00taken sabbaticals to do that.
01:04:02One other important relationship
01:04:03that can happen with a new
01:04:05venture or with a partner through
01:04:07licensing to an existing company,
01:04:09sponsored research,
01:04:10where certain questions still have
01:04:13to be addressed that are both.
01:04:15Academically interesting and
01:04:17commercially interesting.
01:04:18And so that's another form of
01:04:21relationship which perhaps is time
01:04:23consuming in in in the real sense,
01:04:25but is supported and in parallel
01:04:29is advancing 2 objectives that
01:04:31are complementary ideally.
01:04:34And if
01:04:35you're Pi on a sponsored
01:04:36research agreement that's from
01:04:37a startup company or from a
01:04:39from another existing company,
01:04:41that's your Yale time.
01:04:43The time you spend on that is is
01:04:44is part of your Yale time, not
01:04:46your external time.
01:04:57Hey, so the work that I do is in
01:05:00computational immunology and I was
01:05:03wondering if you could name any
01:05:05examples of types of discoveries
01:05:07or inventions derived purely
01:05:08from computational biology which
01:05:10could be potentially protectable.
01:05:17Yeah, that's a. Wow, OK.
01:05:27Two forms of intellectual property
01:05:30that are potentially relevant in
01:05:32that context are rather broad.
01:05:34Mean software, copyright methods,
01:05:37things of that nature.
01:05:39The challenge there is that
01:05:40because you need to publish and
01:05:42people have to reproduce it.
01:05:44As soon as you publish an algorithm,
01:05:46someone else can, you know,
01:05:48program it in and and and do
01:05:50it in some way that doesn't.
01:05:52Infringe on the copyright.
01:05:55It's very hard to get patents on software.
01:06:00It's possible, but very rare.
01:06:03So more typically what might come
01:06:06out is that you prove your system
01:06:10delivers something of value.
01:06:12And there's the academic version,
01:06:14which is all sort of has
01:06:17a lot of open source.
01:06:19And so on.
01:06:20And then there's a commercially
01:06:22hardened version that is based
01:06:24on the algorithm but uses the
01:06:26commercial software and that
01:06:28might be useful to a company.
01:06:30But the company either being founded
01:06:33or partnered with is going to want to
01:06:36see a demonstration of the deliverables.
01:06:38So let's say your computational
01:06:40immunology approach is for the
01:06:42purpose of identifying drugs that
01:06:44have a new use in context they
01:06:47previously weren't appreciated,
01:06:48and your system has a higher
01:06:50degree of reliability.
01:06:52You need to have shown that in
01:06:54fact you identified something.
01:06:56And then you showed that it delivered
01:06:58that in a model that's generally
01:07:00accepted in terms of treating a disease.
01:07:04So now you have this system in place,
01:07:06a platform to find things.
01:07:08You've proven that when you apply it,
01:07:11it delivers something of value.
01:07:12And then the intellectual property
01:07:14there is a combination of the
01:07:17commercial version of the software.
01:07:19The know how associated to apply it.
01:07:23A particular deliverable that might
01:07:25represent an opportunity for a pipeline.
01:07:28Or is a demonstration that if
01:07:30you partner with somebody else
01:07:32who has a bunch of questions,
01:07:33they're going to get an answer they can use.
01:07:37But in terms of concrete protection
01:07:40of intellectual property?
01:07:41It's kind of a hard space.
01:07:42You're in the business of publishing,
01:07:43you're going to teach people,
01:07:44you're going to get promoted.
01:07:45You're going, you know,
01:07:46based on your demonstration and
01:07:48public domain that you have this
01:07:50solution and others are going to
01:07:51want to repeat it because that's the
01:07:53nature of academic research, right?
01:07:55That should be repeatable. So.
01:07:59The IP that would probably be protected
01:08:02would be the fruits of that application.
01:08:05And if in order and any
01:08:07particular component of that,
01:08:09that's tangible and required in
01:08:12order to deliver that value.
01:08:14So if you create a computer or a
01:08:16box or a laser or or whatever,
01:08:19that provides data uniquely useful
01:08:21for the application of that software.
01:08:24It doesn't matter who other people
01:08:26have the software,
01:08:26they can't use it in a meaningful way.
01:08:29Apps in the box.
01:08:31Does that make sense?
01:08:32So you have to build a bouquet
01:08:37of components that together.
01:08:40Yield something of value,
01:08:42but as individual parts by themselves.
01:08:44They're useful,
01:08:45but not as useful as the totality.
01:08:47Some very hard space.
01:08:49To to to create IP from the pure.
01:08:53Methodology and software.
01:08:56But it would be a great
01:08:57space to partner with other
01:08:58people to create opportunities. So. So
01:09:01for example it could imagine
01:09:03diagnostics you might find,
01:09:04you might find some signatures, some
01:09:07immune system signatures that are
01:09:09markers of disease and you partner with
01:09:11somebody to make a device that could
01:09:13quickly and easily measure those things.
01:09:15Might be someone in engineering
01:09:17here who has a technology that
01:09:19could be used to to make a device
01:09:22like that or or you or you uncover
01:09:24some some, you know compounds.
01:09:26So you know, because of your
01:09:28work, you discover some compounds
01:09:30or combination of compounds that
01:09:31might be useful in treating a disease.
01:09:33But then you need to find a
01:09:34laboratory that that could test
01:09:36that idea and demonstrate it.
01:09:37But I could imagine lots
01:09:39of ways you could be involved. But I
01:09:42would say also the other way,
01:09:43which is if there's one field that not
01:09:46protecting your stuff is really useful,
01:09:48it's computational,
01:09:49because if you can get something out
01:09:52there that a lot of people don't use,
01:09:55don't know your name,
01:09:56so actually your value later is going to
01:09:59be way higher than if you protected it.
01:10:01So again, as having worked a lot with
01:10:05developing tools for computational
01:10:07houses or rational originally of
01:10:09microarrays than RAC can now.
01:10:11Cell already everything we put out public.
01:10:14Gets such a wave of success,
01:10:17especially if you do it early and everything.
01:10:20We try to protect my copyright,
01:10:22which is nobody ever looked at it.
01:10:24Yeah, so that's an interesting but,
01:10:25but I love the idea of the signatures
01:10:27and the bundling that that works well.
01:10:31Let me just add one other important thing,
01:10:33which I think Mark alluded to.
01:10:35Our office has a rather panoramic
01:10:38view of what's going on.
01:10:40And so you might come to my
01:10:42colleague Richard Anderson,
01:10:43who handles computational science
01:10:45and does some biomedical and he'll
01:10:47we'll have our meetings and.
01:10:49And he'll say, I'm working with
01:10:50such as person on this thing.
01:10:52I was like, oh, you know,
01:10:53I know somebody in another department
01:10:56who's interested in solving a
01:10:57problem that this might work with.
01:10:59And you may never have encountered
01:11:00that person. It's a big place.
01:11:02So a really important part of
01:11:03what Yale Ventures does is is make
01:11:06connections within the institution.
01:11:08There's a surprising lack of
01:11:10communication between this side of
01:11:11campus and that side of campus.
01:11:13So you know,
01:11:14there's a really great collaboration
01:11:15that Mark's been involved with
01:11:17involving the chemistry department,
01:11:18the pharmacology department
01:11:21and himself for addressing.
01:11:23A new way of dealing with the the
01:11:26new bar associated with HIV drugs.
01:11:29Now the goal is can you dose a person?
01:11:32Can you dose a person once every six months?
01:11:35Well, in order to do that,
01:11:36you have to formulate the drug.
01:11:38The drug has to have the right kind
01:11:40of half life and you've got to save a
01:11:42mouse with a single dose over six months.
01:11:44And so putting these pieces
01:11:46together is really important.
01:11:49And sometimes that happens organically.
01:11:51People cross pollinate,
01:11:52it treats and sometimes go to
01:11:55pitch Fest innovation summit.
01:11:57And sometimes it's because I'm talking
01:11:59to a colleague who mentions they're
01:12:01working with someone and just someone
01:12:03says what are we going to do with this then?
01:12:06So again,
01:12:08talking to us,
01:12:09giving us the seeds to
01:12:11plan is very important,
01:12:12even if we're not going to file
01:12:14necessarily on that particular thing
01:12:16at this time really so much is about.
01:12:21People coming together to build things.
01:12:23That are bigger than their
01:12:25individual projects.
01:12:31So how have you chosen to
01:12:32sort of create a company
01:12:33versus other options like licensing
01:12:36or selling the technology?
01:12:42So I literally don't want
01:12:44to start up companies,
01:12:45but I find myself doing it so.
01:12:48And the reason is every now
01:12:50and then you just have to.
01:12:52Actually, the seasoned entrepreneurs,
01:12:54if you're not deeply involved,
01:12:56they're more reluctant today.
01:12:57So the quick, you know,
01:12:59it's a little bit of a game of trust.
01:13:00Like if you don't believe in intervention,
01:13:02why would we believe in your intervention?
01:13:04So are you willing to spend
01:13:06your nights developing
01:13:07it? And yeah, so I find
01:13:09myself now as a scientific founder of a
01:13:12company that hopefully will get funded soon,
01:13:14and I sort of enjoy it.
01:13:17I literally don't like Speaking of
01:13:19the money aspect of it and they all
01:13:22know that they will wait there, yeah.
01:13:24That it's hard for me,
01:13:26but they actually are very
01:13:28respectful of that, right?
01:13:29So that's the other thing.
01:13:30What what would you do it?
01:13:32We actually discovered, you know, the.
01:13:33The receipt and the there's a reason
01:13:36why they're in Health Sciences is
01:13:38because they also want to cure disease,
01:13:40that they just want to make money.
01:13:44But. So initially my
01:13:46approach was we'll just license out
01:13:48stuff and I don't want to be involved.
01:13:51I don't think that this works,
01:13:52to be honest. I think you have
01:13:54to be a little bit more engaged.
01:13:55That's why. The same thing.
01:13:57I don't like pictures because I
01:13:59think it's the other way around.
01:14:00There should be a pitch for which
01:14:02we sit and the venture capital
01:14:04has present 5 minutes of what,
01:14:06how much money they're going to give us.
01:14:08But
01:14:09I also live,
01:14:10live in the real world and
01:14:11said, OK, good, yeah, I accept
01:14:13it. So I will show
01:14:14up and I do my best to win, right?
01:14:17But I I get it. And I think for
01:14:20all of us living with this.
01:14:21Cognitive dissonance is not a bad idea.
01:14:23We should recognize there is
01:14:24a little bit of a conflict
01:14:25there. But we just have to handle
01:14:28it. We the one thing we don't want to
01:14:30do is crawl in our ivory tower and
01:14:33not have an influence on the world,
01:14:35so hopefully this helps from my point.
01:14:40Yeah, I, I I totally agree with that.
01:14:42I've had. The experience I've had
01:14:45with licensing technologies was
01:14:47that they never went anywhere.
01:14:49And often it gets licensed to protect you,
01:14:52to protect the company
01:14:54from a competitor, right?
01:14:55You're forming a competitor that they
01:14:57would then have to have to overcome.
01:15:01So. So it seems more true now than
01:15:04it was at the beginning of my career.
01:15:06Most companies grow or acquire
01:15:08new technologies by buying a small
01:15:10company and integrating it into their
01:15:12thinking out by not by licensing from
01:15:14universities because that there's less
01:15:16risk for them that way and so. So,
01:15:21but so this decision though really comes
01:15:24you can't do it by yourself and
01:15:26because you need people with money,
01:15:28you need people with experience
01:15:30and running companies.
01:15:31And so it's when those things cluster
01:15:33around, you know, you, you, you.
01:15:35When they cluster around a
01:15:37project from your lab or an
01:15:38idea that you have that could
01:15:39be translated, that's that's
01:15:41when you start it up.
01:15:43And you hope
01:15:44the rest of the patients get
01:15:45licensed by somebody but.
01:15:48Don't count on it.
01:15:50So what's the most difficult portion
01:15:52of the cluster to bring together?
01:15:53The money cofounders, all of it,
01:15:57it's all, it's all difficult.
01:15:59And so I think every story
01:16:01you hear about a startup
01:16:02probably be slightly different.
01:16:03There's no sort of template
01:16:05that I that I know of.
01:16:08But but my experience finding in in.
01:16:13This area of the world,
01:16:16so between Boston and New York,
01:16:18which are real, real magnets for
01:16:23people that have experience managing
01:16:25companies and leading companies,
01:16:27it's that part that's the
01:16:28hardest to to find here,
01:16:30although it's been getting better partly
01:16:32because of the work of deal ventures.
01:16:34And as we create more mass
01:16:36of these activities,
01:16:37there'll be more experienced
01:16:39management people around.
01:16:43Just want to comment about licensing
01:16:46versus licensing versus new ventures.
01:16:49Some technologies just don't have enough.
01:16:54Mass to sustain a company.
01:16:57There a solution,
01:16:59but it's not independently useful
01:17:01or independently investible
01:17:03absent some other infrastructure.
01:17:07In terms of.
01:17:10Making those things work,
01:17:12I actually like to take the approach
01:17:14where it's a it's a platform company.
01:17:17With sort of a way of doing something,
01:17:19whether it's software or
01:17:22fundamental chemistry,
01:17:24I like to do a license to a company.
01:17:30In a narrow slice.
01:17:32And that's data that shows venture capital.
01:17:35There's somebody out there that
01:17:36thinks there's commercial value.
01:17:38So if I have a platform and
01:17:39I can do a deal with a pharma
01:17:41for a small sliver of that.
01:17:43It it's proof that we've been through
01:17:46the diligence grinder in terms of the IP.
01:17:48It's proof that somebody thinks
01:17:50it's a solution for something.
01:17:53And it sets a value point for at least one
01:17:57application of the platform to a project.
01:18:01And it mitigates risk because it the
01:18:04venture capital can envision an exit
01:18:06either of an asset or the entire company.
01:18:09And so there's a balance.
01:18:10You have to think about how to.
01:18:14Both prove the technology
01:18:16works and also prove its.
01:18:18Commercial viability?
01:18:21So. The balance between,
01:18:24I think you do both, you know,
01:18:25you do a little bit of licensing,
01:18:26you test the waters, you get a sense
01:18:29of what it takes to convince somebody.
01:18:31And then if there's more to it,
01:18:33you might spin out a company to
01:18:35make the most of the platform,
01:18:36the most of the sort of
01:18:38fundamental technology.
01:18:38Because putting it all in a pharma
01:18:40or putting it all in one place where
01:18:43it's not the main event is a waste.
01:18:45They're going to use it for
01:18:46the one problem they have.
01:18:47They're going to get their one solution
01:18:48and it's going to sit on the shelf.
01:18:50So in that sense, I agree, you know?
01:18:52You have to find the right
01:18:54kind of relationship.
01:18:56You're going to let them
01:18:57wander around the entire acre,
01:18:58or you going to give them a path and
01:19:00they can have a picnic in the corner?
01:19:02It's,
01:19:02it's sort of simple minded but
01:19:05it's really works right and and so
01:19:07I think that you know there's a
01:19:09there's an experiment that needs to
01:19:11get done in choosing whether or not
01:19:13it's solely licensable because it's
01:19:15a one hit wonder or whether it's
01:19:17really something there that has the
01:19:19ability to be broadly applicable.
01:19:21And then you make decisions.
01:19:22That's something you want to.
01:19:24License iteratively to a lot of people.
01:19:27Because of the nature of the solution,
01:19:29is something you want to put into
01:19:31a company so that company can use
01:19:33it itself and also solve things
01:19:35for other people.
01:19:36So it becomes a very interesting business
01:19:39problem and the business structure.
01:19:42That.
01:19:44Really is technology dependent.
01:19:46You you are a platform generator and.
01:19:50Not everyone can make
01:19:51the most of the platform.
01:19:53So you cut it up into pieces and and
01:19:56you make sure it's clarity as to who
01:19:58get what's who gets what part of it.
01:20:00But maybe not.
01:20:00One entity can make the most of it.
01:20:02And part of what our job is to
01:20:04do is to make sure as much as
01:20:06possible that the most is made
01:20:07of the of of the salute,
01:20:08of the Yale solution to X.
01:20:16I have one last question for you.
01:20:18So how does the money
01:20:19work right? Who's paying for
01:20:20the patents? What happens when
01:20:21a company gets what does the
01:20:23money work? That's for me too.
01:20:27Well.
01:20:31That is the money work.
01:20:32Well, you can talk about the
01:20:34yeah, yeah. So we have a budget.
01:20:39And it's not infinite.
01:20:41And so part of the process is is
01:20:43coming to an understanding about
01:20:45what it is we're protecting and why.
01:20:48And what do we imagine the trajectory is
01:20:51of that particular protections value?
01:20:54The way it works is that the
01:20:57initial investment is pretty
01:20:59small in terms of dollars.
01:21:02In terms of time, that's another matter.
01:21:04But we can file a patent application
01:21:07for a couple 1000 bucks and then we
01:21:10have a year to sort of figure out some
01:21:12things because very frequently we're
01:21:13up against the publication deadline.
01:21:15And if we don't file before the publication,
01:21:18we've generated the priority
01:21:19I was talking about.
01:21:20That closes a lot of doors.
01:21:23So we have this window.
01:21:25To file and we we we want to file on enough.
01:21:29That covers the.
01:21:32Publication that's pending.
01:21:33But not so much that we're contaminating
01:21:36the waters for future inventions.
01:21:38So there's already a discussion
01:21:39that has to go on.
01:21:40How much do you protect and
01:21:42when and what's going to happen
01:21:44during that initial year?
01:21:46To demonstrate that we possess
01:21:48the invention in some way,
01:21:50and so that initial investment is
01:21:51more about time than about money and
01:21:54there's a cost of expectation associated,
01:21:56we have to,
01:21:57there has to be an understanding
01:21:59that if the following doesn't happen.
01:22:01Then we may not take it to the next step,
01:22:04because the next step is an order
01:22:05of magnitude more expensive.
01:22:10And then at that point you again,
01:22:12you test the waters, figure things out,
01:22:14and if at that point there's still
01:22:17nothing there to justify it,
01:22:19then maybe we let it go
01:22:20abandoned and start again,
01:22:21or we protected much more narrowly.
01:22:25That's kind of the way it works.
01:22:28And that all comes out of
01:22:29the Yale ventures budget.
01:22:33You might have also been asking about
01:22:35what happens with it like gets licensed or
01:22:37license. I mean I think it's
01:22:39also how does Yale, I mean
01:22:41yeah, so the policy,
01:22:44the policy currently is for inventions
01:22:47disclosed after I believe it's October 1st.
01:22:51That income is distributed to.
01:22:56The inventors, the university,
01:22:58the departments and the lab are not
01:23:01staken and some proportionality that
01:23:03I don't call off the top of my head.
01:23:06And if it was disclosed prior to that date,
01:23:09it follows the old policy which says
01:23:12that it's distributed to the well.
01:23:15I guess this part I don't know if
01:23:17we're still going to get used to
01:23:18be that our office formerly known
01:23:20as Office of Cooperative Research
01:23:21was an eat what you kill office.
01:23:23So we were funded based on taking 10%
01:23:25off the top of any income that came
01:23:27through because we're not paid through
01:23:29indirects and all the rest of that.
01:23:31And so the remaining 90%?
01:23:34For inventions that are disclosed
01:23:35that were disclosed prior to the
01:23:37policy change date are distributed
01:23:39according to how much income comes in,
01:23:41ranging from 30 to 50 to 30%.
01:23:44Back to the innovators,
01:23:45but not to the departments, not to the labs.
01:23:53I think the new policy still
01:23:54is still stratified by how much
01:23:56comes in for years, right?
01:23:59I believe so in terms of
01:24:02the distributions to Yale.
01:24:04There's a few more percentage
01:24:06to to the inventors,
01:24:07but if you have a spinout company right,
01:24:10is this Yale taking some of
01:24:11that afterwards or does Yale?
01:24:14Different question.
01:24:16Again, depends on.
01:24:19Policy change but. Typically.
01:24:21Putting aside how the distributions would go,
01:24:24they would well,
01:24:25the distributions would follow the
01:24:27current policy, the new policy,
01:24:28or the old policy pending.
01:24:29But.
01:24:32Today, the practice is that in
01:24:35negotiating a license to a new venture.
01:24:38Yale, institutionally
01:24:39will be an equity holder.
01:24:41If and when that equity is monetized.
01:24:45Where it's translated into some other
01:24:47kind of tangible value down the road.
01:24:49That portion at Yale has.
01:24:52As Yale Equity is is distributed according
01:24:56to the applicable patent policy.
01:24:59Seems like a pretty yeah.
01:25:02So equity is A is A is,
01:25:04is, is a form of money,
01:25:06in essence 1 hopes and it it's
01:25:08going to get distributed.
01:25:12The only difference, really,
01:25:13would be that Yale will hold on to the
01:25:16equity until the monetization event.
01:25:18Versus making immediate
01:25:20distributions in the vast majority
01:25:22of the cases to the inventors.
01:25:30Really quick.
01:25:35Is you know the, I guess the.
01:25:38Activities involved with commercialization
01:25:40and is that better reserved for
01:25:43kind of a mid to late career,
01:25:45I mean obviously there's and
01:25:48I think more experienced.
01:25:51Family members obviously have more to more
01:25:54to contribute in in the mid to late career,
01:25:56but I mean, is it possible that this is a?
01:25:59You know, for some,
01:26:00for somebody in early career, that this
01:26:02could be a big distraction or a bad.
01:26:05You know, I guess, yeah,
01:26:07I mean kind of a a distraction
01:26:09to pursue early career,
01:26:10but you know is it best reserved for
01:26:13later and I guess obviously there's,
01:26:15you know differences between.
01:26:19What people are involved in,
01:26:20but I don't know, I just just curious
01:26:22to hear your thoughts on that.
01:26:24Yeah, so it's a really tough question and
01:26:25I think both naturally and I mentioned
01:26:27that early in our careers we didn't
01:26:29pay much attention to it and probably
01:26:30missed opportunities because of that.
01:26:32But but at the time it was
01:26:34probably a good decision.
01:26:35I feel like it was a good decision for me.
01:26:3710 years worked out pretty well.
01:26:39So that was a good thing to keep
01:26:41a target on, but I I think it's because.
01:26:46You know, particularly here,
01:26:47but other places as well.
01:26:48I think the, the,
01:26:49the Yale benchers equipment equivalent
01:26:51in other places has grown just
01:26:52like Yale Ventures has grown here.
01:26:54There's more support and more different
01:26:56kinds of support than there were
01:26:58when we were starting our careers.
01:26:59So I think that's good.
01:27:00I think there's more mentorship in
01:27:02departments with people that have
01:27:04the experience at this than there was
01:27:06when I started it.
01:27:07There was there, there
01:27:08were people in my department that
01:27:10were senior that had much experience.
01:27:12So those two things give you.
01:27:15Resources, right, to help
01:27:17you make decisions. And and
01:27:18it could be that, you know,
01:27:19something you discover now is it right?
01:27:22It's big and you don't want to miss
01:27:23out on that opportunity either.
01:27:25So I would connect to, you know,
01:27:28senior people in your department who have
01:27:30experience with these kinds of things.
01:27:32And I would connect with, you know,
01:27:34ventures when you have ideas
01:27:35and see if they really do seem
01:27:37like they have some legs. OK.
01:27:42I think the
01:27:43decision to. File
01:27:45provisionals is an easy one, right? That's a.
01:27:49Low hanging fruit.
01:27:50If you have something,
01:27:51you don't want to mess on that right?
01:27:53I think the decision if you're
01:27:54going to become a scientific
01:27:56founder is slightly different. Of.
01:28:00I'd say especially
01:28:01looking at more sort of West Coast to Bay
01:28:03Area. It's very natural
01:28:05that people start as assistant professors
01:28:07and by the time they're up for tenure,
01:28:10they're CEO's of companies.
01:28:13Now, we don't have it this
01:28:16culture here that much.
01:28:18And some people still stay in academia.
01:28:20Some people.
01:28:22You know they will take the year.
01:28:24Some people will take the year or two off,
01:28:26put the company on its legs and go back,
01:28:29and some people will just hand it off.
01:28:32Right. And just leave.
01:28:33But but I've seen it a lot.
01:28:35A person who was an undergrad in my lab.
01:28:37Chemistry.
01:28:40Undergrad from CMU.
01:28:42Is now. The CEO
01:28:44for really nice company right.
01:28:46You know, it shows that I'm happy.
01:28:48You know when I when we discussed it,
01:28:50I thought she should do it MD,
01:28:51PhD she wanted the PhD.
01:28:52When we discussed it,
01:28:54she discussed early career system,
01:28:56professorship or entrepreneurship.
01:28:57I said early career professorship.
01:29:00She took the entrepreneurship, right.
01:29:01So I I I think these are valid careers and
01:29:04the more we have good people in industry,
01:29:07the better we all do.
01:29:08So there's nothing wrong with it.
01:29:11So that's the way I would look at it.
01:29:12So if you enjoy it,
01:29:13if you have something you want to do.
01:29:16Be a scientific founder.
01:29:17And if this takes that out,
01:29:19you're out of academia.
01:29:20Nothing
01:29:21bad about it.
01:29:25Just sort of one comment
01:29:26as a non professional.
01:29:28From what I've seen and when I
01:29:31look at people's grants. Umm.
01:29:34Is all sorts of speculation about
01:29:37the utility to cure disease or
01:29:40something of that nature and I
01:29:43think that if you are going to.
01:29:47Have that kind of.
01:29:48Approach that, you know I'm going
01:29:50if you're a yeast biologist,
01:29:51going to the American Heart Association,
01:29:53which they do, and they're claiming
01:29:55this research is going to, you know,
01:29:57facilitate treating heart disease.
01:30:02Having had exposure to companies and
01:30:06entrepreneurs and commercial environment
01:30:07so that you can frame that argument.
01:30:11In a credible way,
01:30:12as part of the justification
01:30:14for the support you're seeking.
01:30:16It can't do any harm, I would say in
01:30:19terms of putting things into context.
01:30:20And why is this a value to society
01:30:23beyond pure value knowledge?
01:30:25And then different kind then
01:30:27and as you move along.
01:30:29Different kinds of grants become available.
01:30:33Or you become more credible when
01:30:36you apply for them because.
01:30:39You can describe the next set of experiments.
01:30:44Because you've been exposed to
01:30:45something you didn't previously
01:30:47have exposure to a new context.
01:30:48You interact with someone.
01:30:49You hear about a disease you never heard
01:30:52of but your biology is relevant to.
01:30:54And so part of the investment of
01:30:56the time may not be the particular
01:30:59invention or a particular project now.
01:31:02But just what it teaches you
01:31:05outside of your silo.
01:31:07And knowing that real innovation,
01:31:09typically innovation,
01:31:09is a function of cross pollination,
01:31:12you're self pollinating.
01:31:15And so that's part of the value proposition.
01:31:18Even if there isn't a
01:31:20particular invention now.
01:31:24So I think we've run out
01:31:25of time. Yes. Thank you.