Yale Psychiatry Grand Rounds: February 18,2022

February 18, 2022

"Showing Up Whole: Pauli Murray’s Courageous Life"

Speakers:

Glenda Gilmore, PhD, Peter V. and C. Van Woodward Professor of History, African American Studies, and American Studies, Yale University

Barbara Lau, MA, Executive Director, The Pauli Murray Center for History and Social Justice

Donyelle McCray, ThD, Associate Professor of Homiletics, Yale Divinity School

Christy Olezeski, PhD, Associate Professor, Department of Psychiatry, Yale School of Medicine: Director and co-founder, Yale Pediatric Gender Program, Yale Medicine

Parker T. Hurley, PhD, LCSWA, a queer, Black, non-binary Trans activist, psychotherapist, and healer justice practitioner

Information

ID: 7466
To Cite: DCA Citation Guide

Download Transcript

00:00So much for being here for this
00:03really important and innovative.
00:05I think grand Rounds that's focused on
00:09the life and legacy of Polly Murray.
00:14Our agenda for today is that
00:16we'll have a few remarks before
00:18we introduce our panelists.
00:20And then we will go right
00:23into the discussion.
00:25We hope to allow you to put comments in
00:31the chat at any point to the public chat.
00:35Or to the private chat to anyone of
00:37the panelists, or to me or amber.
00:39We also have a poll everywhere
00:42where you can submit anonymous
00:45questions or comments that we
00:47can also pose to the panelists.
00:50So want to have multiple ways
00:52that you're able to participate.
00:54And of course, you can always raise
00:57your hand to ask questions as well,
00:59or to make a comment.
01:01So I'm going to turn it over
01:03to Doctor Crystal for a few.
01:05Remarks and then I'll also
01:07provide some remarks.
01:08So doctor crystal.
01:10So thank you Cindy and I want to thank
01:13you and Amber our moderators today
01:16for pulling this conference together.
01:22This is really an important expression of.
01:26Our department's engagement and commitment
01:30to Black History Month and as we celebrate.
01:34Both the. Accomplishments. Of.
01:42Of the black members of our
01:44faculty and the broader community.
01:49And the impact.
01:50On our lives and the lives of
01:53of our broader society, and.
01:57It seems particularly apt to have.
02:01Our focus on Pauli Murray,
02:03who's had who had so much impact and
02:07who's continuing impact in terms
02:10of polimeri college here at Yale
02:13is is probably resonating everyday.
02:16I also just wanted to acknowledge
02:19that this grand rounds emerges from
02:24increased efforts and attention by
02:26our visiting lecture committee,
02:29chaired by Stephanie O'Malley.
02:31To both more extensively provide venues
02:35for us to celebrate black history
02:38months together as a department,
02:41and to have a more diverse group of
02:45people participating in the selection
02:47of topics for visiting lecture series
02:51and and to have greater diversity.
02:55As in the topics that we address
02:57as a community.
02:58As a result and and today is
03:00a wonderful example of this,
03:02and also to acknowledge the hard
03:04work of of many people in the
03:07department who've been working now.
03:11For over 18 months as part of
03:14the Anti racism taskforce,
03:17the Steering Committee and
03:18its six subcommittees.
03:22It's inspiring every opportunity that
03:25we have to come together to hear
03:29the work of these committees and and
03:32to see the products of their work,
03:34which promises to transform the
03:37culture of our department and make
03:39us a better department overall.
03:42So it's a special day to remember
03:46Polly Murray.
03:47It's a special day to celebrate Black
03:50History Month and it's a special day.
03:53To celebrate our departments.
03:56Evolution towards a better,
03:59more inclusive and diverse community,
04:02so I'm I'm.
04:03I'm thrilled on all of those counts
04:05to welcome our grand round speakers
04:08and and I'll pass the baton to you.
04:10Cindy, at this point.
04:12Great, thank you so much and
04:15good morning again everyone.
04:16Thank you for being here and welcome
04:19to the members of the Department of
04:22Psychiatry and Visitors from any
04:23other departments here at the School
04:25of Medicine or other institutions.
04:27And I want to say a special
04:30welcome to our remarkable panel
04:32of experts joining us today.
04:34I want to thank Doctor Crystal
04:36and Stephanie O'Malley and the
04:38visiting Lecture Committee for
04:40supporting this grand rounds today.
04:42It's truly been an honor and a
04:44privilege to plan this grand rounds.
04:46But the panelists and my Co moderator
04:48Amber Childs and another faculty member,
04:50Doctor Becca Miller.
04:51With each conversation I not only learn
04:55more about the Reverend Dr Pauli Murray.
04:58But I also learn more about myself as a
05:01black woman moving through the world at
05:04this moment in time at the core of it.
05:06That's what I hope for you all that
05:08you learn more about Poly and her
05:11enormous contributions and legacy,
05:13and that you engage in self reflection.
05:16I hope that our department continues
05:20similar conversations and self reflection.
05:23Through our discussions about Poly life,
05:25I learned that identity is not fixed.
05:28We are all evolving.
05:29I learned to sit with my anxiety as
05:32I stumbled over my words every time
05:34I tried to figure out which pronoun
05:37to use when referring to Poly for
05:39fear of being disrespectful to her or
05:42to someone with a different opinion.
05:45I had to face my anxiety about not
05:48being the expert despite being the
05:51diversity official in our department.
05:53I was afraid that I would say the
05:56wrong thing.
05:57But I'm mostly OK now because I've
05:59concluded that there is no right
06:02answer to this pronoun question
06:04in our planning meetings,
06:05we could safely ask the question
06:08and grapple with it,
06:09and that's what I would like
06:11for our department.
06:12I learned that names on buildings and
06:15the images we see on the walls matter.
06:18If I if Yale had not named one of its
06:21new residential colleges after Poly,
06:23I would never have learned about her.
06:26I learned more about intersectionality,
06:28which refers to the study of how
06:31different power structures interact
06:32in the lives of minorities.
06:34Specifically for black women.
06:36I know that in 1944 Poly coined
06:39the term Jane Crow to describe the
06:41oppression that she faced as a
06:44black person perceived as a woman.
06:46So the concept of intersectionality
06:48existed well before the term
06:50intersectionality was coined in the 1980s.
06:54Importantly,
06:54Poly showed us the psychological impact
06:58of multiple forces of oppression.
07:02We are both late and timely and
07:04celebrating Polymerix next month
07:07marks the 82nd anniversary of Polly's
07:10arrest and imprisonment for refusing
07:12to sit in the back of the bus in Virginia.
07:15We're also at a historic moment in
07:17time in which a black woman may be
07:20nominated to the Supreme Court.
07:22In 1971,
07:23Poly wrote a letter to then President
07:25Nixon to apply to the position on the
07:28Supreme Court when Hugo Black retired.
07:31And if you haven't seen that letter,
07:32will try to put it in the chat.
07:33It's really remarkable,
07:35but in that letter she said that
07:38her application was to forestall the
07:41popular misconception that no qualified
07:44women applied or were available.
07:46So with that I'm gonna turn the panel
07:51and discussion over to Amber who will
07:55introduce our speakers for the day.
07:57Amber. Hello
07:58everyone, good morning and thank you Doctor
08:01Kristofer that beautiful opening and and
08:04the thoughts to consider around that.
08:06I had the great honor of introducing
08:08our panelists to you all in welcoming
08:11them as well as to thank them.
08:13I have said to the panelists before and
08:15I'll stay out to this group that I have.
08:17Really been a student of this conversation
08:20and I thank the panelists as well as Doctor
08:24Cruz to because my learning about Doctor,
08:27Polly Murray has really been
08:29personally transformative for me.
08:31And so it's been a real gift to have a window
08:33into this tremendous individuals life,
08:35and so thank you for that.
08:38So I'll begin with our first panelist,
08:40who you see pictured here.
08:41This is doctor Glenda Gilmore and
08:43she is the Peter V&C Vann Woodward,
08:46professor of history emerita
08:48at Yale University.
08:49A prolific writer,
08:50she has authored numerous books,
08:53among them defying Dixie,
08:54the radical roots of civil rights,
08:56in which Doctor Reverend Polly
08:58Murray is a central character.
09:00Doctor Gilmore is a fellow of the
09:02Society of American Historians
09:03and has received fellowships
09:05from the Guggenheim Foundation,
09:07the National Humanities.
09:08Enter the American Association
09:10of Learned Societies,
09:12the National Endowment for the Humanities,
09:15the Woodrow Wilson Foundation,
09:16and the Institute for Advanced Study
09:18at Radcliffe at Harvard University.
09:20She is president of the Southern
09:22Historical Association as well
09:24and so welcome to Doctor Gilmore.
09:26Next you see pictured here,
09:27Doctor Danielle McCray and she
09:29serves as an associate professor of
09:31homiletics at Yale Divinity School.
09:33Her scholarship focuses on preaching
09:35and Christian spirituality.
09:37She explores the ways African Americans,
09:40women,
09:40and laypeople use sermons to
09:43build their interior resources,
09:44play remember, and vent, and disrupt,
09:47and currently,
09:48Doctor McCray is writing a book
09:50about the preaching and spirituality
09:51of the Reverend Dr.
09:53Pauli Murray, entitled the apostle Paul E.
09:58Barbara Lau, who you see pictured here,
10:00is the director of the Pauli Murray
10:02project at the Duke Human Rights Center
10:04and Franklin Humanities Institute,
10:05where she connects her commitment
10:07to justice with her belief in
10:09the power of community practice.
10:10She is also the lead developer of the Pauli
10:13Murray Center for History and Social Justice.
10:15Barbara Lau has over 20 years of
10:17experience as a folklorist, curator,
10:20professor, media producer, and author.
10:23Our very own doctor Kristi Oliseh
10:25Ski is an associate professor in
10:27the Department of Psychiatry,
10:28Pediatrics and Child study.
10:29She is also the co-founder and
10:31director of the Yale Pediatric Gender
10:34Program and Interdisciplinary program,
10:36serving transgender and Gender,
10:37diverse Youth Age 3 to 25 and their families.
10:41Doctor Olesky clinical and research
10:43interests include gender and sexual
10:45development and the varied impacts of trauma.
10:48And finally,
10:49it's certainly not least you see here.
10:50Picture Doctor Parker T Hurley.
10:53He is a queer black nonbinary trans
10:56activist and healer based in Durham, NC.
10:58He's provided advocacy and support
11:00to LBGTQ communities to individuals
11:03living in with major mental illness,
11:06people of color, youth and seniors.
11:09Dr Hurley currently works at
11:10the Radical Healing Center,
11:12providing clinical services that
11:14center queer and trans bipac.
11:17His passions lie within healing
11:18and transformation of our homes,
11:20schools and communities through self care.
11:23Radical love building deep connections
11:25to nature and working exhaustively
11:28at the intersections of all social
11:30justice movements.
11:31And we'll get to hear more from
11:33Doctor Hurley potentially about
11:34this additional image that you see
11:36displayed here next to his likeness.
11:38So to the panelists.
11:39Welcome and thank you for being here again.
11:41We're grateful to be in this conversation
11:43with you about the legacy and rich
11:46lessons of Doctor Murray's life,
11:47and so to set the table for
11:49our discussion today,
11:50I'd like to ask each of our three
11:53historical panelists to spend just a few
11:55short minutes answering this question,
11:57which I only asked myself just
12:00a few short months ago,
12:01and in many ways I think I'm still
12:04asking myself this question.
12:06Who was Pauli Murray?
12:07And so I'll begin with.
12:09Barbara Louder,
12:10really.
12:10Help us understand about the early
12:12life of Doctor Murray and how those
12:14early experiences shape the life
12:15that we're learning about today,
12:17so I'll turn it over to Barbara Lau.
12:20Thank you so much and it's just such a
12:22pleasure and an honor to be with this
12:24esteemed panel and with all of you today,
12:27I think we can agree that
12:29childhood experience really shapes
12:31the rest of our lives.
12:32And I think this is in particularly
12:34true with the Reverend Dr Polly Murray.
12:36It used to see by this quote Polly really
12:40understood that they were responsible
12:41for carrying forward a family legacy,
12:45a legacy that included Polly's Grand
12:47Father service on behalf of the Union.
12:50Army and Union Navy.
12:52During the Civil War,
12:54Polly's grandmother's experience as a woman
12:56who was born into slavery but of parentage.
13:02Cornelia Fitzgerald's mother was
13:04an enslaved woman named Harriet,
13:06and Father was a man from the family
13:09that owned Harriet and and these two
13:13people came together in North Carolina.
13:15After Robert Fitzgerald came South
13:17after the Civil War to fight what
13:19he called the Second Great War,
13:21the war against ignorance.
13:22So as a teacher, educator,
13:24and activist,
13:25he was working with people who were
13:28newly experiencing emancipation
13:30and helping shape them.
13:33In two important participating citizens
13:36pictured here are Robert and Cornelia.
13:38With their four daughters,
13:40the tallest of them is on
13:43Pauline Pauline Fitzgerald.
13:45Dame Pauline's mother is pictured in
13:48the Middle Agnus Fitzgerald Murray.
13:50And so if we can have the next slide,
13:52I want to say that these people these two
13:56women really set the stage for young Polly.
13:59Unfortunately,
14:00after having six children very quickly
14:03and even pregnant with the 7th Agnus Marie
14:06passed away of a cerebral hemorrhage,
14:09her husband,
14:10William Murray,
14:11who was an educator,
14:12suffered from a lot of depression,
14:14and I think was very overwhelmed
14:16by having six children and
14:18trying to raise them on his own.
14:20Eventually he was committed to the mental
14:24health facility for black people in Maryland,
14:27where he was later murdered by a White guard.
14:30So Poly,
14:31Murray.
14:32Was a little different from their siblings
14:35because five of these children went to
14:38live with William Murray's relatives.
14:40It was only Polly who came to
14:42live with her namesake aunt,
14:44Pauline,
14:44in Durham.
14:45And I think that this notion that
14:49Polly was in some sense an orphan but
14:53also completely involved, engaged,
14:55embraced by this Durham family,
14:58really set the stage for Polly to
15:01understand that they were carrying
15:03on this legacy as an activist.
15:06As an educator from Polly's grandmother
15:09as a faithful Episcopalian.
15:13I'm Pauline and Aunt Sally.
15:15Loved Paulie deeply.
15:17And this is such an important factor
15:21in Pawleys continued discernment
15:24of around their gender around
15:27their calling around their work.
15:29Polly was an amazingly brilliant
15:32child and a brilliant scholar,
15:34probably one of the most important 20th
15:37century human rights activists in our time.
15:40And I think you'll learn from
15:42the other panelists some of the
15:44impact Polly had later in life.
15:46Polly graduated from Hillside High School
15:48in Durham and decided that they wanted
15:50to go on to College in New York City.
15:52If we could have the next slide,
15:53it was in New York where Polly tried to
15:55go to Columbia where they were turned away
15:58because of their race from go to Barnard,
16:00where they were turned away because of
16:02their economic status and where they
16:04eventually went to Hunter College,
16:06but was also during this time that Polly,
16:09who was not born with the name Polly,
16:11chose a gender neutral name,
16:13chose to create these among
16:16a series of very important.
16:18Self portraits that give us
16:20a glimpse of this.
16:21This process of claiming and naming identity
16:26so you have the IMP and the dude here.
16:29But in this grouping there's
16:31also the Vagabond, the Acrobat,
16:33the Crusader,
16:34each one carefully curated terms
16:37of presentation,
16:39location,
16:39you know the the even the the sort of
16:43facial expression that Polly sharing
16:45to express a piece of who they were.
16:49So Polly began early without language,
16:52that we might have today to talk
16:54about a ****** personality,
16:55to recognize the impact of the laws
16:59and the traditions that surrounded
17:02polimeri as they were trying to make
17:06their way on a journey that we all
17:09share to happiness to partnership,
17:11to family to belonging to purpose.
17:15And so I think that this.
17:17This both calling and push right?
17:20So Polly was drawn to the work,
17:22but also Polly was lifted up,
17:25sustained and sort of encouraged
17:27to carry on the traditions of their
17:31family at which I have to say,
17:33Pauline Murray did amazingly well.
17:35So that's all for me.
17:37I think we're going to pass the baton
17:39now to Glenda, just to say we are.
17:42Holding it down in Durham, NC in this House.
17:45Built in 1898 by Pauli Murray's grandparents,
17:48in which they grew up.
17:50We understand from Polly's historical
17:52record that in their 75 years they
17:55lived at 50 different addresses
17:58and so it is so important that
18:00we ground this legacy.
18:02We ground this story in place that
18:04there will always be a place in
18:06the world where people can come
18:08and learn more about Pauli Murray,
18:10about the community in which she grew up.
18:13About the family which loved
18:15and supported her.
18:16And of course, if you're all ever in Durham,
18:18we encourage you to come and visit with us.
18:21Thank you, Barbara.
18:24And so now I'll turn it
18:25over to Doctor Gilmore,
18:26who in just about 5:00 or so minutes,
18:28is going to share more about the
18:30work of Doctor Murray related
18:31to to their activism.
18:32So, doctor Gilmore.
18:36Great. Oops, how do I get up?
18:43Give me switch to me Amber.
18:47Yes, we can hear you.
18:49Maximi we can see your slide.
18:53OK, yes perfect excuse me.
18:57I'm going to use she because
19:01Paulie Murray used it. During.
19:08The period of time that I'm talking about,
19:10which is the late 1930s through the 1970s,
19:14and also because she moved through the
19:17world during that time as a woman,
19:19and you'll see the consequences of that.
19:22For decades. She practiced,
19:25indomitable persistence and relentless
19:27self invention in challenging
19:30discrimination from every side she.
19:32Applied to the University of North Carolina
19:36Graduate School in social work in 1938
19:40and they informed her that members of her
19:42race were not accepted in the university.
19:45She then launched a public
19:47campaign to gain admission in 1940,
19:50she adopted Gandhi's tactics through study,
19:53refused to move to the back of the
19:55bus in Virginia when she went to jail.
19:57For that, she came out to work to
19:59eliminate the exploitative Southern
20:01sharecropping system.
20:02The poll tax and the all white jury.
20:05During World War Two,
20:06she organized the first sit in movements
20:08and watch the second sit in movements.
20:10Actually in Washington DC,
20:12not content to remain a perennial plaintiff,
20:16Murray became a lawyer to fight
20:18inequality and then in the 1960s she
20:21developed a legal strategy to end
20:23sex discrimination and helped found
20:25the National Organization of Women.
20:27No one endowed Polly Murray with authority.
20:31She seized it,
20:32convinced in her heart that she
20:34deserved equal.
20:35Treatment she never lost an opportunity
20:37to demand it, and she failed.
20:40She never stopped,
20:42she just revised her tactics.
20:44I'm going to just take you on a whirlwind
20:46tour of just a few things that she did,
20:49which are probably 10% off her activism.
20:54In 1940 she was living in New York,
20:57looking forward to a relaxing
20:59Easter back home in that house in
21:02Durham with Auntie Pauline Dame.
21:05But she only got as far as Virginia.
21:08She the telegram that she sent
21:10home to her aunt Red.
21:12Easter greetings arrested.
21:16Petersburg Warrant greyhound bus.
21:18Don't worry contact Walter White.
21:21Walter White was secretary of the
21:24NAACP crossing the Virginia Line.
21:26She and her traveling companion had had
21:29to move to the back of the bus and then.
21:31Encountered a series of broken
21:34seats so by Petersburg.
21:35They were sitting in front
21:37of a couple of empty seats.
21:40The driver got on ground to them.
21:42You'll have to move back.
21:43Threatened to call the police.
21:45Pauline Murray threatened to call
21:46the NAACP invoked the 14th Amendment
21:48Constitution and the Supreme
21:50Court of the United States.
21:52She said I thought that would fix him.
21:54It didn't.
21:55Then they decided to use what she called
21:59Gandhi's technique and sat just sat.
22:02She was arrested for creating a disturbance
22:07and violating Virginia segregation laws.
22:10Murray refused,
22:11bail spent the night in jail and
22:13she and her companion were fired.
22:15Find they appealed,
22:17lost and refused to pay the fines,
22:20so they went to jail for 30 days.
22:23Durham's Black newspaper wrote that
22:25the women quote signified the beginning
22:27of a new type of leadership that
22:30will not cringe or crawl on its belly
22:32merely because it has to be faced
22:34with prison bars in its fight for
22:37right. Months later,
22:38Marie went to work for the Socialist
22:41Party's Workers Defense fund.
22:43She mounted a national campaign
22:45to save a black, Virginia,
22:47sharecropper Odell Waller from execution
22:49and the murder of his landlord
22:52on the grounds of self defense.
22:55But the WDF appealed to get a new trial
22:59on the basis that an all white jury
23:01was not a jury of his peers to get on
23:04a jury you had to pay the poll tax.
23:07Only white people take the
23:09poll tax because they were the
23:11only people allowed to vote.
23:13Across the nation,
23:14Marijunana speaking through the critique,
23:16sharecropping and
23:17discriminatory jury selection
23:19Doctor Gilmore.
23:20I'm so sorry to interrupt you.
23:22I want to make sure that we're
23:23able to hear what you're
23:24saying and I'm noticing that
23:25we're having a little trouble.
23:27Are you able to move closer
23:28to the thank you so much?
23:29Want to make sure we don't miss a minute?
23:32I'm sorry, so she went on a
23:35national speaking tour talking about
23:38the South sharecropping system,
23:40talking about voting discrimination.
23:42One White columnist in Los Angeles wrote,
23:46I heard Polly Murray.
23:49Slim list him and almost exquisitely pretty.
23:53Talked to a handful of perspiring people
23:56about the conditions of sharecroppers.
23:58It was one of the best addresses
24:00I had heard anywhere. Frankly,
24:01I thought of Joan of Arc as she spoke.
24:04I pictured her not only as a
24:06champion of her own people,
24:08but as an emissary to the rest of us,
24:11meaning white people.
24:14Murray had told her staff if I lose this
24:17young man's life, I'm going to study law.
24:21It did lose and Waller was executed despite
24:24the intervention of Eleanor Roosevelt,
24:27with whom Murray had made friends.
24:30She entered Howard Law School
24:33on scholarship in 1941.
24:34She was one of two women in the class,
24:36but she spent a lot of her time
24:39protesting in Washington and what
24:41she called Guerrilla like warfare.
24:44She told a Philip Randolph you
24:46can do that next slide. Amber,
24:48who led the March on Washington movement.
24:52That she would be his little Lieutenant.
24:54She was fat one and only weighed 100 pounds,
24:57which is why people talk about her as small.
25:01She discovered that there was no
25:03segregation law in Washington DC.
25:05In fact, there was a law prohibiting
25:08discrimination based on race.
25:10She LED two city ends,
25:12one in 1942, one in 1943.
25:16Students also and nonviolent oath
25:19when they were refused service,
25:21they went and sat down with empty trays
25:23and read books with a vow of silence.
25:26Pickets outside carry signs
25:28such as we die together.
25:31Why can't we eat together?
25:32It's World War Two remember when they
25:35targeted a national chain near the capital?
25:38The picket sign red is this
25:40Hitler's way or the American way.
25:43Murray exhorted them,
25:45no matter what happens to you temporarily,
25:48whether you're served or go to prison
25:50or get slapped down the resources of
25:53human history are behind you in the
25:55future of human society is on your side.
25:58Took only 24 hours to desegregate the
26:01chain restaurant and take the next slide.
26:05Howard's law school valedictorian Murray.
26:09In 1944,
26:10who was Mary in 1944 had traditionally
26:14attended Harvard Law School
26:16for a Masters in law.
26:18After being that valedictorian at Howard.
26:21But Harvard told Murray reminiscent
26:23of what Chapel Hill said,
26:25your picture and the salutation on your
26:29college transcript indicate you are
26:31not a ***** entitled to be admitted.
26:33She felt the blow as sharply
26:36as she had the one from UNC.
26:38Instead,
26:39she went to California and got a master's
26:42degree in law from Blood Hall School of Law.
26:45At Berkeley,
26:46she served a brief time as Californians,
26:50Deputy Attorney General, and Amber.
26:53The next slide, too.
26:54And then she went to New York.
26:56Practice civil rights law.
26:59Which didn't pay very well
27:01at the best of times.
27:02Murray was always self sufficient,
27:06self supporting,
27:06and so she ultimately had
27:08to join a regular law firm.
27:11She joining at life steering
27:13Stevenson law firm.
27:15She served on the Committee on Civil
27:18Rights and Political Rights of the
27:20President's Commission on Women.
27:22In 1962 and in 1965,
27:25she wrote a path Breaking Law Review
27:28article that cast sex discrimination
27:31like race discrimination,
27:32calling it Jane Crow.
27:35Ruth Bader Ginsburg credited Polly
27:38Murray for inspiring her own
27:40amicus brief in the historic 1971
27:43Supreme Court case read versus
27:45read that recognized women as
27:47victims of sex discrimination.
27:49The court ruled unconstitutional
27:52a sex based classification law
27:54because it violated the 14th
27:58Amendment's equal Protection Clause,
28:00which says quote no state shall deprive
28:03any person within its jurisdiction.
28:05Of equal protection of his loss,
28:07Ginsburg called probably had the idea that
28:10we should interpret the text literally.
28:12It said any person, not any mail person,
28:17we owe her so much courage to her
28:20willingness to speak out when
28:22society was not prepared to listen.
28:25We stand on her shoulders.
28:28Murray looked back.
28:29On her one woman civil rights
28:32movement this way quote.
28:33And not a single one of these
28:36little campaigns was at victorious.
28:38In each case.
28:39I personally failed,
28:40but I've lived to see the thesis upon
28:43which I was operating vindicated.
28:45I've lived to see my lost causes failed.
28:49Thank you.
28:54And now finally I'll turn
28:55it over to Doctor McCrea.
29:00Well, I'm so glad to be with you today and
29:03I'll talk briefly about how spirituality
29:07factored into Polly's identity.
29:10First, I should know that Polly was a
29:13person with a terrific sense of humor.
29:16Naming a car. A black Volkswagen Sojourner
29:19Truth and a dog. Black and white.
29:22Together we shall overcome.
29:25Polly similarly brought this same
29:27joy and imagination to the church.
29:30Poly had a deep and multifaceted
29:33Christian faith that was never
29:36fundamentally moralistic.
29:38Instead, Polly's church tradition.
29:40The Episcopal Church.
29:42Was grounded in Scripture,
29:45tradition and reason and put a
29:48high premium on human experience.
29:51Rather than do's and don'ts,
29:54Christianity was about wonder.
29:57Beauty and growing in one's love and
30:00understanding of God, self and neighbor.
30:02And while Polly was at times
30:05in tension with the church.
30:07Overall,
30:08Faith was a source of solace that
30:11provided spiritual connection to
30:14deceased relatives and asphere for
30:17considering what it meant to be
30:19human and what it meant to be whole.
30:23The African American spirituality
30:25that Polly inherited helped people see
30:29themselves as enveloped by divine tenderness,
30:32even when there were no external
30:35signs of this.
30:37Church served as a place to
30:39ask who does God say I am?
30:42And how do I live in the fullness of that?
30:45More spirituality fueled a life
30:48of risk taking and activism and
30:52offered a sense of belonging.
30:54Polly prayed,
30:55and Christian worship services among friends,
30:58but seem to have a special fondness
31:01for praying outside in nature.
31:03Ideally with a dog panting nearby.
31:07Roy, pictured here,
31:09was a spiritual companion who sat nearby,
31:13while Polly prayed,
31:14wrote sermons and listened to gospel music.
31:20On January 8th, 1977,
31:23Polly was ordained to the priesthood
31:26and celebrated as the first
31:29African American woman priest
31:31in the Episcopal Church.
31:33Five years later,
31:35when this next photo is taken.
31:38Women priests are still very rare.
31:42Here,
31:42Polly rejoices over the
31:44ordination of a ministry.
31:45Minty, Reverend Sandy Wilson,
31:47the African American woman,
31:49right next to Polly.
31:52It's important to note that Priestly
31:55identity is informed by a certain hybridity.
31:59Historically,
31:59priests were hinge figures
32:01who bridge heaven and earth,
32:04as suggested by the priestly
32:07vestments pictured here.
32:09In the purple priestly garments here.
32:13Much of Polly's ministry is spent
32:16in this representational role while
32:18caring for those who are sick or
32:21dying or celebrating funerals.
32:24And this included this ministry
32:26to the sick also included a
32:28brief stint at Bellevue Hospital,
32:30where decades earlier Polly had been
32:34admitted for mental health treatment.
32:37In every case,
32:38Polly offered patients compassionate,
32:40presence,
32:41prayer and listening.
32:45Now outside healthcare settings fully
32:48preached and this was challenging
32:51because preaching was often
32:54authorized not merely by ordination.
32:57But by secondary sex characteristics
33:00like a deep voice, a tall,
33:04imposing body, and muscular gestures.
33:08It's no wonder,
33:10then,
33:10that in a notebook Polly describes preaching
33:14as quote my most difficult problem.
33:17Yet in sermons,
33:19Polly challenges many of the gendered
33:22assumptions people took for granted.
33:24In one sermon,
33:25Pali notes that Jesus could return as
33:28a woman. In another that women were
33:30likely present at the Last Supper.
33:33And in another suggested celebrating mother,
33:35Father Day or sibling day in
33:38lieu of the binary Father's Day.
33:42Ali repeatedly quotes a
33:44line from the apostle Paul,
33:46who wrote that in Christ there
33:49is no longer Jew or Greek.
33:51There is no longer slave or free.
33:55There is no longer male and female for
33:59all of you are one in Christ Jesus.
34:03Some Christians interpret this line
34:05as renouncing the gender hierarchy
34:08of male over female others see it
34:10as upending the binary itself.
34:13I think Poly was in this latter
34:16group and heard it as an explicit
34:19affirmation of fluid gender identity.
34:22And a call to seek a fuller
34:24vision of the human person.
34:27Ali quotes this line.
34:29This line often even weaving it
34:32into sermons on other subjects.
34:35Yet if there's one theme that
34:37defines Poly spirituality,
34:38it's probably the idea
34:40of being a child of God.
34:43This signified belonging and yielded quote.
34:47An inner serenity.
34:48That makes us less vulnerable to the
34:52fears and pressures that beset us.
34:56Next slide.
34:59Foley said. To think of oneself as a
35:03child of God is a liberating experience.
35:06It is to free oneself from
35:09all feelings of inferiority,
35:12whether of race or color, or sex, or age
35:17or economic status or position in life.
35:21When I say that I am a child of God.
35:24I do not need to make special pleading
35:26for my sex, male or female or in between.
35:30To bolster self-esteem.
35:33When I truly believe that God is my
35:35father and mother, in short, my creator,
35:38I am bound also to believe that all men,
35:41women and children of whatever race,
35:44color, creed, or ethnic origin are
35:47my sisters and brothers in Christ.
35:49Whether they are Anglicans,
35:51Roman Catholics, Methodists,
35:53Black Muslims, members of the Judaic faith,
35:57Russian Orthodox Buddhists or atheists.
36:02And some Christianity offered Polly
36:05comfort belonging and a robust
36:09vision of human wholeness.
36:13Thank you Doctor McRae and thank you
36:15to all of our historical panelists for
36:17providing us with that sort of appetizer.
36:19If you will, about the the
36:22fullness of doctor Murray's life,
36:24I I'd like to open up now with a
36:26question that that this group had
36:29thought about in some detail as we
36:31were preparing for this panel and and
36:33really thinking it through carefully.
36:36And I wonder Doctor McRae and
36:38Doctor Olesky if I could have
36:40both of you speak to this a bit.
36:43Participants will notice of people
36:45who are participating in this
36:47conversation that different panelists
36:49have used different pronouns
36:51to refer to to Doctor Murray.
36:53And so I wonder Doctor McRae,
36:55if you might be able to speak to this next
36:57image that I'll display here and then.
36:59I wonder if I might be able to ask
37:01Doctor Olesky to kind of help us
37:03think about this from a sort of
37:06clinical application perspective,
37:07what what might we need to think about
37:09or or consider before we move on to
37:11the to the next element of discussion?
37:13So I'll just display the image.
37:16And Doctor McCray, I wonder if you
37:18could walk us through a bit about
37:19what we might be seeing here.
37:21Yes, so this is a ministry certification
37:24and it's from 1981 and if you look
37:27closely you'll see that the Diocese of
37:30Washington has assumed that everyone who's
37:33going to serve as a priest is a man,
37:36and so all of the pronouns are
37:39he and his and Polly has very
37:43carefully stricken through these.
37:45And written her and she.
37:48Being very clear about what
37:51works and what doesn't,
37:53and this is something that also happens
37:56on policy seminary application.
37:57She makes clear that there there's
38:00a problem with the seminary.
38:02Assuming that all of the applicants
38:05will be men.
38:06At the same time,
38:08what's important to note is that at an
38:11earlier time in Polly's life that he
38:14pronounced may have been a better fit.
38:17Or Polly may have made a different decision,
38:21and So what I think is important
38:24here is that pronouns that make
38:26Poly bristle at one time but could
38:30be actively embraced in another.
38:32And when I think about the challenge of.
38:36Pronouns what I really feel like is
38:39important is that we grapple pronouns reveal,
38:43and they conceal.
38:45And so is the questions that
38:47I think about our visibility.
38:49How do we celebrate and make visible
38:51the lives of gender nonconforming
38:53persons in history?
38:55And how do we do that while honoring
38:59the texture of individual experience?
39:02And how do we honor context?
39:05It's hard to reveal Poly without also
39:07rendering the world in which Poly
39:10lived in that world was brutally binary.
39:12Non binary people used binary
39:15pronouns during Poly lifetime.
39:18But also,
39:19individuality probably was a poet with
39:22very idiosyncratic and intentional
39:24ways of using language for a long time.
39:27Willfully refusing to use the
39:30term black when *****.
39:33When ***** had fallen out of favor.
39:37Slavery is also a factor here.
39:39Slavery involved what Hortense Spillers
39:42calls the UN gendering of black flesh,
39:45meaning in short that gender codes
39:47were subordinated for the enslaved.
39:50What mattered was not whether
39:51a slave was male or female,
39:53but the work that had to be done.
39:55So if an animal had to be slaughtered
39:57and only a female was available,
40:00then that person did it,
40:01even though that task may have
40:04ordinarily been dedicated to men.
40:06The tenderness and norms of
40:08privacy accorded to white women
40:10were emphatically withheld from
40:12black women and in many cases this
40:16persists so fungible gender is
40:18part of the legacy of slavery,
40:20and that history has to be taken into
40:23account when we think about pronouns.
40:25Today,
40:26we have to be very careful about
40:30mapping white frameworks of gender
40:33onto African American bodies.
40:35Another factor is dialogue.
40:37Dialogue is racist and it is
40:39gendered and often using she series
40:42pronouns reveals this nuanced in the
40:44layers of the dialogue more easily
40:46than they series pronouns can.
40:49And when we're thinking about
40:51historical context.
40:52And finally,
40:53privilege Poly had less privilege around
40:56pronoun pronoun choice than many do today.
40:59How do we make clear what's
41:02unique about Poly story?
41:05And I also think another factor is
41:07navigating the public and private.
41:09There was a public Poly and a
41:11private Poly, and so how do we?
41:15Make that dynamic clear.
41:17I will say that in my case I use
41:20sheet and they pronouns when
41:22I'm describing Pauli Murray,
41:23but I'm always doing it with a great
41:26deal of care and trying to honor
41:29the complexity of Polly's life.
41:31Thank you, I know others have thoughts too.
41:34So
41:35Doctor Ellis SGI wonder if you might
41:37be able to help us think through
41:39what what some of the applications
41:41might be clinically for us now.
41:43Yeah, I, I really appreciate.
41:47What Doctor McRae was talking
41:48about and and I think that it's
41:49really important to think about.
41:51You know, historically,
41:52you know how how identities have
41:56been portrayed, how folks may.
42:00Identify more strongly at certain times,
42:02public versus private.
42:03You know how this may change based
42:05on somebody's gender journey and
42:06I know that there was a comment
42:08in the chat about oppression
42:09and inclusion and and you know,
42:11sort of thinking about that today.
42:12You know, we do have more expansive language.
42:14We are using.
42:15You know, different pronouns,
42:16books we are understanding gender attorneys
42:18as not having a fixed outcome or an end,
42:21something that that may continue
42:23to be complex and transition,
42:25or they are complex and they may,
42:27you know, change over time and
42:28I think it's very important to.
42:30Sort of.
42:30Keep that in mind.
42:31Clinically, you know,
42:32and thinking about when folks can be out,
42:35and if they can be safe and thinking
42:38about how safety plays a role and
42:40how someone may identify themselves,
42:42you know, do they have this ability?
42:44See other folks like them, you know.
42:46Do they have the language?
42:47Do they have information?
42:48And I think all of this is important
42:50for us to be able to think about as
42:52clinicians and to be able to honor folks.
42:55You know,
42:55if this does change and folks may take on,
42:58you know different pronouns.
43:00As they continue on their gender journey
43:03and that doesn't mean that it's any.
43:05You know that someone,
43:09someone's gender attorney,
43:10is not real or or should not be supported
43:13because this may change overtime.
43:15Thank you doctor Rozeske.
43:17I wonder if now I might be able to.
43:22This sort of share and experience that
43:24I had myself when learning a little
43:28bit about Doctor Murray and I I.
43:30I I shared a little bit at the beginning
43:33that I had only a few short months ago.
43:36Learned who Doctor Murray
43:38was and I remember I.
43:40I came into awareness of Doctor Murray
43:42because of Doctor Cristo who shared with me.
43:45Amber. You have to to look at this
43:48documentary and I remember getting
43:50about 15 or 20 minutes into the
43:53documentary and having to stop.
43:55The documentary and and send Cindy messages,
43:58saying Cindy I'm feeling a type of
44:01way which means to to say that I
44:04was feeling fury and sadness and
44:07gratitude about only just now knowing
44:10who this individual was and it was
44:13so transformative for me to be able
44:16to have access to understanding
44:18the history of Doctor Murray.
44:21But but even more so really
44:23thinking about the implications.
44:25Of what this life meant for me
44:27and going forward, and you know,
44:28I think it's it's really hot.
44:30You don't have to sort of look too
44:32closely or too carefully to really
44:34think about how Doctor Murray
44:35in so many ways embodies that
44:38conversation around intersectionality.
44:39And so I wonder, Doctor Hurley,
44:42if you might be able to to share with
44:44us a little bit about your your thoughts
44:46about that and and some of what you
44:47know about that experience as well.
44:52Thank you. Can you hear me OK, OK, great.
44:58Originally from I'm from New Jersey,
45:00so if I speak too fast or if I mumble
45:02please just throw out the reaction emoji
45:04and we'll see what goes from there, yeah?
45:09Your lead just makes me
45:11think about Doctor Mccrae's.
45:16Words around. I decolonized gender
45:21and that's something that Polly
45:23didn't get to benefit from right.
45:26I consider myself to be lucky
45:28that I got a chance to know
45:30Polly earlier on in my life,
45:31but definitely not one of the.
45:35Fundamental civil rights leaders right
45:38so it's wild to think that be 30 years
45:43before Kimberly Crenshaw coined the
45:44term of intersectionality policies
45:46like running herself into history.
45:52Understanding of her identities
45:53as not only a black woman,
45:55it also is a worker being in a
45:58strip inextricably connected.
45:59So if it's OK, I just wanted to
46:02like highlight a couple of things
46:05about clinical implications and
46:07then getting back to what does
46:10it mean for us all that we just
46:12found out about this ancestor?
46:14So I think that there's a
46:16lot to glean from Polly.
46:20And how she was able to thrive as
46:22a person who embodied multiple
46:25marginalized identities. And.
46:30At the person who also
46:32despite her great success,
46:34really struggled with the amount of
46:36inadequate support and affirmation,
46:38she was able to get in the
46:40world that she lived in.
46:42So I think on a macro level,
46:44it makes me think of we have to be able to.
46:47Willie, we have to be willing to
46:50interrogate the white supremacy and
46:52anti blackness is just sexism that are
46:54latent within our institutions, right?
46:57So yeah, repartee representation matters so.
47:00It's right now I am only one
47:03of maybe less than a handful.
47:06Actually don't know anybody who
47:08is also black and queer and trans
47:11and fully licensed as a mental
47:13health provider in the state
47:15of North Carolina like myself.
47:17In that matters, right?
47:18Even though what we know about the
47:20South is that the majority of like
47:22queer folks and queer families
47:24are living here in the South.
47:26So thinking about how do we work
47:28to bolster the leadership of cutey,
47:29pump bipac clinicians and offer the
47:31kind of mentorship necessary to
47:33creating more effective clinicians?
47:35Because that's what Polly did?
47:36Polly wasn't without mentorship, right?
47:41About people believing in her leadership,
47:44so I don't know there's.
47:47Over 100 people on this call.
47:49I don't know how many of you ever
47:51had a black trans teacher professor?
47:55Hands no, maybe.
47:56I mean that's not a coincidence.
47:59And so thinking about that.
48:02It also lends lends to the interrogation of,
48:07like the dearth of research.
48:10Pertaining to the lives of Cutey backpack
48:12people and then further breaking that down
48:14into thinking about what are the unique
48:17lived experiences of people who are black,
48:20queer and trans but also neurodivergent
48:23or chronically mentally ill.
48:24Live in rural communities, disabled right?
48:26So if we are not in party
48:29places of leadership,
48:31then we're also not conducting
48:32this lifesaving research, right?
48:34So I think about, yeah,
48:36from that macro lens.
48:41And when we think about
48:42intersectionality of identity,
48:43we also need to be more acutely aware
48:45of the ways that interlocking systems
48:47of oppression impact our lives.
48:49By that I mean like Cutie by Packer
48:52people are disproportionately
48:53impacted by police violence,
48:55mass incarceration, immigration,
48:57detention, drug and alcohol use,
49:01abuse, interpersonal violence and all.
49:04And homelessness right like we said,
49:06Polly moved around a lot like
49:07that wasn't by coincidence.
49:08That was by design like shooting.
49:10It was broke.
49:10I mean, yes, it was the Great Depression.
49:13I think when she made her way to New York,
49:15but just thinking the way that her
49:19racialized and gendered body showed up
49:22in that time and space gives us insight.
49:25So thinking about how do we meet
49:27people where they're at today?
49:29So yeah. How to type?
49:36Despite all of her so and she was
49:40also institutionalized twice.
49:42Because of these inner conflicts with
49:43gender and a lack of affirming care,
49:45right like she was seeking out
49:47hormone replacement therapy and
49:50gender affirming surgeries.
49:52But I also wanted to assert that.
49:56For me and for my clients like
49:58this is not necessarily true for
50:00trans folks today or gender.
50:02Non conforming people today that they're
50:05not entering our care necessarily with
50:06that conflict around their gender,
50:08but rather the impacts of childhood
50:10trauma and poverty and interpersonal
50:12and institutional violence.
50:16Which is exacerbated by
50:18gender and race, right?
50:22So I just wanted to put that out there
50:25when we think I think of an important
50:27framing and I want to be mindful of time.
50:30Is this idea of understanding
50:33how Polly persisted?
50:34What are these perfect protective factors
50:37that helped her with stand that impacts
50:39of all of this impression, right?
50:42So the ways that I ways that I think
50:44about it in my work with clients
50:46and now today it makes me want to
50:49lift up her family, right like?
50:51She comes from affirming people her aunts.
50:54I think her and Pauline even called her
50:57her little boy girl right like So what if
51:00we if we affirm the gender of our people,
51:04they can grow up to be polymeres right?
51:06And then hopefully they won't be
51:08like Parker D Hurley's you know.
51:10Years and years later that are still in
51:12anomaly like there's no reason why I
51:14have to be the only one in these spaces,
51:16right?
51:17Like the only one graduating with
51:20a PhD in education etc etc.
51:23Oh, I've heard archival work.
51:28Right, so she was a pack rat.
51:29She she traveled.
51:30She brought all of this stuff.
51:31She was writing herself where she
51:33could not be found in history, right?
51:36And so I do think that that's has
51:38implications for like narrative therapies.
51:41And also another protective factor that
51:43I was able to highlight is a standing
51:47standing network of friends and mentors.
51:50She was friends with Ella Baker,
51:51Eleanor Roosevelt,
51:52Langston Hughes to boys, right.
51:54Like as a site of resiliency.
51:56So when we think about who
51:57are are on our care teams,
52:00we can include our chosen
52:02families or the families that we
52:05create as well as our ancestors.
52:07This is work that I do a lot with my clients,
52:09right?
52:09Like Polly is somebody that we pull from.
52:11In order to think about how how
52:13she persisted, how can we persist
52:16and then her dialectical framework,
52:19which those of you who are familiar
52:21with dialectical behavioral therapy,
52:22which essentially is the premise,
52:24is that you know we're always
52:26maintaining multiple salient truths.
52:28I think that black queer and
52:31trans people are particularly
52:32like prone and have a flexibility
52:34around that kind of thinking that.
52:37That can lend itself to emotional
52:40dysregulation, distress tolerance,
52:42interpersonal effectiveness.
52:43So like thinking that you can be.
52:47Both scared and lean into your
52:51values of resistance, right?
52:53You could be exhausted and hopeful.
52:55Hope is a song in a weary throat,
52:57right?
52:58That was a Polish language that
53:00you could be descendant of slaves
53:03and slave people and people doing
53:05the enslaving as a as a point of
53:09connection around empathy and
53:10compassion that we all have these
53:13multitudes and contradictions.
53:14And in that way yeah so.
53:17Maybe I would be open to answering
53:19questions about those kinds
53:21of things specifically.
53:23Doctor Herl, thank you so much for this and
53:26I I'm I'm apologizing for interrupting you.
53:28I want to make sure that we get
53:30an opportunity to to speak a
53:31little bit more before we wrap up,
53:33but I you know you've you've
53:34really touched on this idea of,
53:36you know I I came away from learning about
53:38polyamory and and and thinking to myself.
53:39How is it that a person who is
53:41running in circles with the likes of
53:44Eleanor Roosevelt who is essentially
53:46architecting the spine that's then
53:48used for the legal argument in in
53:51Brown versus Board of Education,
53:53a person who.
53:53'cause then you know,
53:54sort of acknowledged by
53:56someone larger than life.
53:57Like Ruth Bader Ginsburg is not
54:00in our collective awareness in the
54:03way that that Doctor Murray is.
54:05Maybe with with this group of scholars
54:07and I think you have articulated
54:08some of my theory about that which
54:11is the intersectionality right?
54:12The sort of complexity of of who Polly
54:16was really really had a lot to do with that.
54:18I wonder if Christy you might
54:21help us to think now about.
54:24What's the invitation that we have
54:28as a department to really think
54:31about with with this individual?
54:33Like what?
54:34What does Polly Murray help us to
54:36think about as a department with
54:38respect to intersectionality,
54:39you know, I think about working with.
54:42Individuals who I am so concerned
54:44that they are slipping through the
54:46cracks of mental health systems
54:48and we have this individual who is
54:50doing everything that Polly could
54:52to be sort of seen and heard and
54:54yet slip through so.
54:55So what are the lessons learned
54:57and and what you think?
54:59The the invitation is.
55:03So I think that there are many
55:05different things that we could
55:07think about as a department, right?
55:08So first is you know this question
55:10that keeps coming up is why did we
55:12not learn about Pauli Murray right?
55:13And So what are the narratives
55:15that we have that have been raised
55:17or that have been erased, right?
55:19And why is that so?
55:20Thinking about you know folks who
55:23have these intersecting identities,
55:24you know, black, queer, trans, nonbinary.
55:28You know?
55:29How are we making sure that
55:31these narratives are.
55:32Being raised up.
55:33And where have we learned our treatments
55:36from or our theories from right?
55:38And what have we not learned because
55:41we're not hearing from other folks who
55:44identify in these various ways, right?
55:46Who stories are left out?
55:48How are we including folks in the
55:49research that we're doing as Doctor
55:51Hurley was talking about, right?
55:52You know,
55:53how are we ensuring that we're
55:55hearing from our bike lock,
55:57bipac queer gender?
55:59Diverse students,
56:01faculty,
56:01patients?
56:04How do we understand the history of
56:06how folks have been treated right?
56:08How do we understand the
56:10gender minority stress model?
56:11How do we understand the
56:12minority stress model, right?
56:13And thinking about how victimization
56:15or rejection non affirmation right
56:17are impacting folks and impacting
56:19their health in these different ways?
56:21How do we change that right?
56:23How can we make our spaces more inclusive,
56:26right, welcoming and safe?
56:29For not only our clients,
56:30but our faculty and our students, right?
56:32So that we have more folks,
56:34like Doctor Hurley who are here who want
56:37to be here who can stay here, right?
56:39How do we attract and retain
56:41folks and retain folks,
56:42not just attract them,
56:43but retain them and make these safe spaces?
56:45How do we have this visibility that folks
56:47want to come to our department or that
56:49our patients want to come to us for care,
56:52right?
56:52So that they're not, you know.
56:53So we have systems that can
56:54hold them and not fail.
56:57How do we also? Make spaces for
57:01folks who feel both in and out.
57:02I think you know one of the things that
57:04I was hearing from Doctor Murray as she
57:07you know I've been reading and hearing
57:09different interviews as you know,
57:10feeling of being both in and
57:12out of different spaces.
57:13And so, how do we create spaces
57:15for folks who feel both in and out
57:18and sort of in between as well?
57:20And in thinking about intersectionality,
57:21how do we understand our own
57:24intersectional identities?
57:25And how do we think about how
57:27this shows up in the room?
57:29How do we understand the intersecting
57:31identities of our patients?
57:32How do we find resources and supports for
57:35those intersecting identities, right?
57:37And then how do we?
57:38How do we deal with different prejudices
57:40that come up in the therapy room?
57:42In, you know,
57:43the work environment for our
57:44faculty for our students,
57:45how do we really address all
57:47of these different issues?
57:48And then you know how do we continuously
57:51maintain awareness and respond to
57:53these things that are happening
57:55in these different environments?
57:57And then also as clinicians,
57:58how do we sit with ambiguity of folks
58:00who sort of feel like they're you know,
58:02in the middle, or folks that are you know,
58:05that do identify as gender fluid?
58:06Or are figuring out their gender journey.
58:08You know how do we sit with that ambiguity?
58:10I think that in the medical profession,
58:12right?
58:12There's this sort of this is the way
58:13that things are, and this is a treatment.
58:15And this is where we're going.
58:16But this is, you know,
58:17this is not necessarily somebody.
58:19You know what somebody needs
58:20for their treatment, right?
58:22So we have to be OK with that ambiguity.
58:24How do we? How do we do that?
58:25How do we build up folks?
58:28You know how do we help?
58:30Individuals and and think about,
58:32you know the medical practices
58:34that have have have.
58:36Guidelines folks in the past or have
58:39engaged in gatekeeping practices?
58:40You know? How do we work to change that?
58:42So we're not gatekeeping,
58:44you know,
58:44I think that Pauli Murray had gone
58:47to multiple different providers
58:48to ask for medications,
58:50and had been told to know.
58:52And so how do we?
58:53How do we stop that from happening?
58:55And so, and basically,
58:55you know, how do we?
58:56How do we raise up these voices that
58:58have been silenced for so long?
58:59How do we do that as a department?
59:00How do we do that in our clinical work?
59:02How do we do that?
59:04You know, historically and and
59:05I think a part of that is.
59:07Is starting now,
59:07so I think that there are multiple
59:09different things that we could think about.
59:10You know,
59:11as a department and in ways to move forward.
59:15In our work and in our personal work as well.
59:19Yes, thank you, thank you for that, I.
59:23You know want to have an opportunity?
59:25Now we've got just about
59:2715 minutes remaining.
59:28One of the things I'm grateful for is
59:30that in our anonymous poll feature,
59:32and even in the chat, this issue of
59:35gender is really resonating with folks,
59:37and I wonder if we might be able to
59:39spend a minute or two about this.
59:40I'll just offer a couple remarks,
59:42one that has come in is around this
59:45idea that you know pronouns may not
59:47be the only way in and may or not.
59:49The only way to discuss gender and so,
59:51how do we want to think about that?
59:52And then.
59:53Another person has written into the
59:55chat about maybe could we speak to the
59:58value or purpose of something concrete
60:00like adding gender pronouns to ID's.
01:00:02Kind of thinking through Christy,
01:00:03some of what you spoke about with
01:00:05these concrete actions that we
01:00:07might take within the department.
01:00:08So I wonder, Doctor Hurley this.
01:00:11Idea around gender pronouns to
01:00:13ID's has been raised specifically
01:00:15with reference to you,
01:00:16but perhaps there's another panelist you'd
01:00:18like to speak about this idea of you know,
01:00:20pronouns or not.
01:00:20The only way to talk about gender.
01:00:27I wanna is there anybody else who
01:00:29wanted to speak to a specialist?
01:00:33OK.
01:00:34It makes sense that gender is
01:00:37something that gets lifted up.
01:00:38I mean here in the South I'm like
01:00:40so tired of talking about bathrooms.
01:00:45So the meaningfulness of a pronoun I would.
01:00:49Is I would say for the trans
01:00:51people that you interface with,
01:00:53but it's also about culture shift, right?
01:00:55I think it on a clinical level it signifies.
01:01:00On a basic level, whoever you say
01:01:02you are is the person that I'm going
01:01:04to respect so it opens a door and
01:01:07and yeah communicates a signifier
01:01:08that you are a person that can hold.
01:01:13The fullness of people who people are right.
01:01:16I also think, yeah,
01:01:18I think culturally it lends itself to.
01:01:22Yeah, kind of organizational
01:01:24space that is OK making mistakes.
01:01:27I mean, I think that the the problem
01:01:29with white supremacy and patriarchy
01:01:31right is that we have so much pent up
01:01:33and getting everything right perfectly.
01:01:35But what would it mean if we just tried and
01:01:38connected and failed and then tried again?
01:01:41So I do think that we have
01:01:42to expand our will window.
01:01:44Our tolerance for me when I
01:01:45see sis people doing this work.
01:01:46It's like you have increased your willing
01:01:49window of tolerance to be uncomfortable,
01:01:51so I don't know.
01:01:55Yeah, Doctor Hurley, I really
01:01:57appreciate that and I think that you
01:01:59know that willingness to sort of make
01:02:01mistakes and also you know to say, OK,
01:02:03I'm going to try better and and to sort of
01:02:05keep that moving is is really important.
01:02:07And I also think you know
01:02:09safety is really important too.
01:02:10And thinking about like you know some
01:02:12folks will say oh everybody should you know
01:02:14put their pronouns out there and do this.
01:02:16And we also want to make sure that
01:02:18folks feel safe in doing that
01:02:20and and offering that option too.
01:02:22And they might feel safe.
01:02:23You know we've had some folks that have
01:02:24come in and said I feel safe with you.
01:02:26Then we can do this and then I'm like OK,
01:02:27but I have to write a note and your parents
01:02:29may see that and so then they're like OK,
01:02:30no, no, no like you can't do that.
01:02:32So you know.
01:02:33Also making sure that we're
01:02:34checking in with with folks about,
01:02:36you know safety in and being out.
01:02:41Yeah, and just being clear that if those
01:02:42if these things are not being offered,
01:02:44people are not having the same
01:02:46learning experience, right?
01:02:46So when we think about retention
01:02:48and everything like that,
01:02:48like we're not learning the same.
01:02:52So just a bit.
01:03:01This is sort of, you know.
01:03:04I I want to open it up for just
01:03:06questions and comments that I
01:03:07have to make this one remark,
01:03:08which is that I'm hoping that people
01:03:11come away from this conversation
01:03:14with questions because in some
01:03:16ways what I've learned from this
01:03:18process is that the questions are
01:03:20a way of making the invisible,
01:03:22visible and like that's sort of the way
01:03:24that we begin to really grapple with
01:03:26some of these issues is that we have
01:03:28to begin to make them them visible,
01:03:31so I I do want to actually ask
01:03:33people if they have questions.
01:03:35And maybe even put to the group.
01:03:37You know what questions might people
01:03:39begin to ask themselves, you know.
01:03:41And as they step away from this conversation.
01:03:45So open it up,
01:03:46it's so so please put questions
01:03:48that you might have in the chat or
01:03:50to the anonymous poll everywhere
01:03:51and we'll make sure that those get.
01:03:54Put to the panelists.
01:04:14Let me just make one comment and it it
01:04:17has to do with something someone just
01:04:19posted in the chat that Pauli Murray
01:04:22talked about this work as a relay
01:04:24race and that it is important to know
01:04:27who we are picking up the work from.
01:04:29But it is. Also really important to
01:04:31know who we are passing the work onto,
01:04:34how we are being their support network,
01:04:37their mentors if they want mentors.
01:04:39Even just educating people about
01:04:42their own history,
01:04:43however painful that might be,
01:04:45however celebratory that might be.
01:04:48Doctor Hurley in one of our earlier
01:04:50discussions talked about knowing
01:04:52your history and your ancestors
01:04:54as a protective factor, and to me,
01:04:57that was a really profound observation.
01:05:00And that that's true not just for people
01:05:02in historically marginalized communities,
01:05:04but also for white people and
01:05:06people in majority communities are
01:05:08hold who hold majority identities.
01:05:10So just wanted to say that small things,
01:05:13large things,
01:05:14all those things make a difference in
01:05:17terms of the keeping the work going.
01:05:25So I want to add one thing that I
01:05:29think is really important to all of us.
01:05:31Personally, the big question I always
01:05:33had is how did Pauline Murray keep going?
01:05:36And one of the things that she did toward
01:05:39the end of her life when she had more
01:05:41time was she went back and edited this.
01:05:44Huge volume, voluminous papers, and wrote
01:05:48smart Smarty pants comments on them.
01:05:52Like if someone had insulted her
01:05:54or she would say, did it hurt you?
01:05:57Bet it did you know and and told us
01:06:01how she didn't have any money and so.
01:06:04A big lest.
01:06:05We think that this was in any way easy.
01:06:10It was hard every day,
01:06:12and when she ran into some horrible
01:06:15insult her some failure,
01:06:17she would go to bed for a week and
01:06:19then get up and start all over again.
01:06:21So it's.
01:06:23She had a great system of taking care
01:06:26of herself, but it was a hard job.
01:06:30Thank you for that.
01:06:31I think there are so many
01:06:32things that probably could have.
01:06:34Like smashed Pauli Murray in half
01:06:36and and yet you know that that's
01:06:38that's in fact not what happened.
01:06:40Time and again one of the other
01:06:43things about Doctor Murray that
01:06:45I have found really fascinating
01:06:47was Doctor Murray artistry.
01:06:49You know that Doctor Murray was
01:06:50a was a poet and I imagine and
01:06:52I don't know this to be true,
01:06:54but I imagine that Doctor Murray would
01:06:56have really nurtured that interest
01:06:58even more fully alongside these other
01:07:00whole jobs of being an activist.
01:07:02And you know,
01:07:03when you're when injustices are happening.
01:07:05You sort of have to do something about that,
01:07:08but I wonder Doctor Macrae,
01:07:09if if there's something that you
01:07:10might be able to share with us
01:07:12about Doctor Maurice artwork, yes,
01:07:15well, you know, I just wanted to say that
01:07:17poetry was a means of claiming voice.
01:07:20You know, of embracing the
01:07:22fullness of personhood,
01:07:24and when Doctor Hurley was talking,
01:07:27I was thinking about.
01:07:29A poem that Polly wrote called Prophecy,
01:07:32which explores like having
01:07:34ancestors and intersectionality.
01:07:36So it's very brief and I
01:07:38wanted to share it again.
01:07:39It's called prophecy.
01:07:43I sing of a new American.
01:07:46Separate from all others,
01:07:48yet enlarged and diminished by all others.
01:07:53I am the child of kings and serfs,
01:07:56freeman and slaves.
01:07:58Having neither superiors nor inferiors.
01:08:02Progeny of all colors, all cultures,
01:08:06all systems, all beliefs.
01:08:09I have been enslaved,
01:08:11yet my spirit is unbound.
01:08:15I have been cast
01:08:16aside, but I sparkle in the darkness.
01:08:20I have been slain but live
01:08:22on in the rivers of history.
01:08:25I seek no conquest, no wealth,
01:08:28no power, no revenge.
01:08:31I seek only discovery of the Illimitable
01:08:35Heights and depths of my own being.
01:08:40And I think that final line that
01:08:42seeking discovery of the the heights
01:08:45and depths of 1's own being is
01:08:48what's so key. How do we give?
01:08:50How do we encourage people to examine
01:08:54themselves and embrace themselves?
01:08:57I think that was an essential.
01:08:59Piece of Polly's work.
01:09:01For for us, for you know,
01:09:03for Polly, and also for us.
01:09:07Thank you for that and then, uh,
01:09:09a final question came in around and I
01:09:12wondered Dr Oleski if you might be able to
01:09:14speak to this and lifting up some of the.
01:09:17Remarks that you had earlier about
01:09:20what concretely are some examples of
01:09:22work that people might do around this.
01:09:27What should it look like?
01:09:28What could it look like?
01:09:30Sure, sure, I think first is is,
01:09:33well education right.
01:09:34And as Doctor Hurley had put in,
01:09:35you know, are we teaching about,
01:09:38you know, not nonmonogamous Poly amorous.
01:09:41You know, kink sexualities are.
01:09:43We are. We talking about?
01:09:45No, I think somebody else had put in,
01:09:46you know, are we talking about LGBT
01:09:48folks and LGBTQ history? You know?
01:09:50How are we teaching about this in
01:09:52our in our clinical work, you know,
01:09:54in our in our grand rounds, or in.
01:09:57In working with students that we all have,
01:09:59you know how are we thinking
01:10:01about these different, you know,
01:10:03pieces of of clinical work, right?
01:10:05And identities right?
01:10:06And I think you know the
01:10:07other thing is thinking about,
01:10:08you know what's the history that
01:10:09we've learned? And how do we sort of?
01:10:10How do we grow that, you know,
01:10:11I think one of the big things that I've
01:10:13that we've heard about a lot is visibility,
01:10:16right?
01:10:16How do we increase our visibility?
01:10:17You know, how do we?
01:10:18How do we build people up?
01:10:19How do we increase?
01:10:20You know staff that look like our our
01:10:23clients that we may be seeing you know
01:10:25and increase our staff so that we look like.
01:10:27Do you know the like other folks in the US,
01:10:30you know that that we are more
01:10:32diverse and different identities.
01:10:34How do we also make it safe to be here?
01:10:37How do we think about safety?
01:10:40You know, because we we can't have folks
01:10:42stay if they don't feel supported.
01:10:44If they don't feel appreciated.
01:10:46If they don't feel like they
01:10:47can be here in these spaces.
01:10:49And so I think that you know those
01:10:51are different ways you know.
01:10:52And also I think you know, Doctor McCray,
01:10:55I really appreciate that poem.
01:10:57It was beautiful and I think it
01:10:58also thinks about you know how do we
01:11:00think about our intersectionality?
01:11:01You know how do we think about
01:11:03our own identities and you know,
01:11:04Barbara, I appreciate you.
01:11:05Also bringing that piece up and how do
01:11:07we think about our own identities, you know?
01:11:09And how do?
01:11:09How does this sort of impact?
01:11:10Care that we have that we're
01:11:12giving you know our own care.
01:11:13So we think about our own self
01:11:16care and self care for those who
01:11:19have these intersecting multiply
01:11:21marginalized identities.
01:11:23And how do we, you know, build that up.
01:11:24I think you know there are many
01:11:25different things that we can think
01:11:26about in different sort of spheres
01:11:28of the work that we're doing.
01:11:33Great thank you and yes,
01:11:34thank you Doctor McCray for the.
01:11:38Lovely poetry from Polly.
01:11:41I think it was really wonderful
01:11:44and and moving and a true
01:11:48fitting piece for for today.
01:11:51I just wanna in closing.
01:11:53Thank all of you for for being here
01:11:55and for your willingness to to listen
01:11:59and engage in this conversation.
01:12:01As I said, it's really important.
01:12:03I think for our department to
01:12:05continue along in the in this path,
01:12:07not just in grand rounds obviously,
01:12:09but this is an important place to
01:12:11to have these conversations and
01:12:14a special thanks to the panelists
01:12:17who are just as you have heard.
01:12:21Just wonderful when they're knowledge,
01:12:24but also and just creating
01:12:26a circle of trust and care.
01:12:29I really appreciate that we're
01:12:31going to send out some information
01:12:35about the Pauli Murray Center,
01:12:37so in case people want to learn
01:12:40more about the work that they aren't
01:12:42engaged in and the staff and the folks
01:12:45that can be resources there as well,
01:12:48and also maybe information about.
01:12:52Doctor Hurley's at work as well
01:12:54that we can share with you.
01:12:56Also.
01:12:56I'm eternally grateful for you all
01:13:00being here and thanks again so much.