“'We Won. We are Still Here:' Black Resistance and Dignified Self-Determination in Africatown, Alabama”
February 10, 2023Information
Poynter Fellowship in Journalism: "'We Won. We are Still Here:' Black Resistance and Dignified Self-Determination in Africatown, Alabama"
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- 00:00Also the director of the African
- 00:03American Studies program.
- 00:04He specializes in African American and
- 00:08southeastern United States folklore,
- 00:10folklore, and oral narrative.
- 00:11He is the Co writer and Co producer
- 00:15of the documentary descendant.
- 00:17He earned a BA in English and
- 00:20African American studies from
- 00:21the University of Virginia and
- 00:23MA and African American studies
- 00:24from the University of Wisconsin,
- 00:26and a PhD in folklore and
- 00:30ethnomusicology from Indiana University.
- 00:38Sorry my screen.
- 00:46Then we have Emmett Lewis,
- 00:48senior who is the 6th generation
- 00:51descendant of Cujo Lewis, who is one
- 00:54of the last survivors of the Clotilda.
- 00:56And again, if you saw the film,
- 00:58you saw his many insights and
- 01:01poignant words and so I'm really
- 01:04excited to hear more from them today.
- 01:08And then last but not least is Vida Robbins,
- 01:11who is a native of Mobile, AL.
- 01:13She has lived here,
- 01:15lived in Alabama and mobile all her life.
- 01:18Her third great grandparents
- 01:20were Polly and Rose Allen.
- 01:22Professionally,
- 01:23she is an RN coordinator in case
- 01:27management at the University of
- 01:29South Alabama Health Systems.
- 01:31So welcome to you all.
- 01:34So my, my first sort of question or what
- 01:39I'd like the panelists to respond to
- 01:41is just to tell us a little bit about
- 01:44you and your connection to Africatown,
- 01:47the Clotilda and the film descendant
- 01:50and what really is the most important
- 01:53message that you would like folks to
- 01:56take from the the film and the story.
- 02:00And I'm going to start with Margaret,
- 02:02if you you could answer those.
- 02:04But also if you could just give us
- 02:06a little bit of the summary of the
- 02:09story of the Clotilda and Africatown.
- 02:17Sorry, I wanted to thank
- 02:20you all for having us.
- 02:21This is a privilege to speak with y'all.
- 02:22And I'm, I'm definitely looking forward
- 02:25to everyone's questions and thoughts.
- 02:27So I I kind of want to my involvement
- 02:31and and sort of to get into this
- 02:33story started about 16 years ago when
- 02:36I was working with Doctor Kern on
- 02:38another film called Order of Myths.
- 02:40And that film is about segregated
- 02:44Mardi Gras in Alabama.
- 02:46And it's the way I first heard
- 02:48about the Clotilda.
- 02:49My mother said to me when I
- 02:51was starting to make the film,
- 02:53you know, there,
- 02:54there there is a in mobile there's a
- 02:56white Mardi Gras queen and a black Mardi
- 02:58Gras queen and the White Mardi Gras
- 03:00Queen's family was the mayor family.
- 03:02She came from the mayor family,
- 03:04from whoever seen the movie.
- 03:05And my mother said to me,
- 03:07you know,
- 03:08on that family brought the last
- 03:09slave ship to the United States,
- 03:11which I didn't know.
- 03:13I didn't learn that growing up in
- 03:15school and didn't really know how
- 03:17important it would be to the film.
- 03:19Until Stephanie Lucas,
- 03:21the Black Mardi Gras queen,
- 03:23we were after Mardi Gras was already over.
- 03:25We were having,
- 03:27we were shooting around her
- 03:30grandparents dining room table and
- 03:32her grandfather said that he was
- 03:34a descendant from the Clotilda.
- 03:36And I looked at the cinematographer
- 03:38and he looked at me and we just
- 03:39sort of knew the whole film had
- 03:41just changed to be around the
- 03:42relationship between these two Queens.
- 03:46So that's kind of how my connection
- 03:47to the story started many years
- 03:49before we started making this film,
- 03:51which started five years ago.
- 03:53But I kind of want to kick the story.
- 03:57I feel like it's more appropriate
- 04:00for Emmett or for Vita to kind
- 04:02of tell that story.
- 04:08I don't see the start.
- 04:10You see me OK? I'll start.
- 04:14Good morning, everybody. Umm.
- 04:18This is a story that we just
- 04:21always known growing up.
- 04:23Always knew that we were descendants of
- 04:26the last on the Africans on the Clotilda.
- 04:29I met Margaret through Doctor Jackson also.
- 04:33While going to church and a family
- 04:35church and Union Baptist is a
- 04:37church that was founded by the
- 04:39by the Africans on the Clotilda.
- 04:42Going to church and Doctor Jackson would
- 04:44bring some of his class there and my
- 04:47mother did small tours in Africa town,
- 04:49so that's How I Met him and Margaret
- 04:52and how I became a part of this.
- 04:55It just happened organically so.
- 04:59My connection is I'm a third grade
- 05:01granddaughter of Holly and Rose Allen,
- 05:03who are two of the founders of Africa Town.
- 05:10In it.
- 05:13Good morning, everybody.
- 05:16I'll say for me, like like they said,
- 05:19if you've seen the movie or
- 05:21how I'm involved in it is.
- 05:23Through my father.
- 05:25Single generation Cudjoe, Lewis and.
- 05:29I I grew up here in the story every day.
- 05:32I was one of the kids that just.
- 05:34I grew up hearing the story and it
- 05:37wasn't more so of a slave story for
- 05:39me more than a a superhero story.
- 05:42Like though that that was my this
- 05:46story was my childhood superhero and.
- 05:50I mean I I could say that's that's
- 05:51my complete involvement in it.
- 05:53Just the fact of knowing from birth
- 05:55that I was seeking generation Cudjoe,
- 05:58Kazoola Lewis and just trying
- 06:00to carry that name.
- 06:08Do you want to add anything?
- 06:12Yeah, this, this, this business about
- 06:16Africatown and and the Clotilde is
- 06:18you know it includes the the Clotilde
- 06:21Africans but it also includes the fact that
- 06:24African Americans and in Mobile County who
- 06:26were living in Plateau magazine Point,
- 06:28Alabama were already there what
- 06:31we call the quarters living and
- 06:34supporting the industry and so.
- 06:37You know the the piece of art that Margaret
- 06:39sort of creates comes out of a confluence.
- 06:42So those people who are already in
- 06:44in Alabama and these folks that
- 06:46showed up towards the tail end pre,
- 06:48pre civil war and like Margaret
- 06:50was saying previously did a film
- 06:53called Order of Myths and it,
- 06:56it was in 2007,
- 06:572008 and it's such a perfect sort
- 07:00of representation of the American
- 07:01Gulf Coast and the study of festival
- 07:04and lo and behold this story.
- 07:07About the Clotilda has always been
- 07:09superimposed on the regular time
- 07:11period of Mardi Gras cause two sets of
- 07:14homecomings occur occur at the same time.
- 07:16And as a person who studies carnival,
- 07:19that's sort of how I got introduced
- 07:21to the story in in addition to having
- 07:23a a great aunt who's an informant who
- 07:25worked in the County School system
- 07:27there in Plateau magazine point,
- 07:29taking me to to Lewis quarters.
- 07:31So that's how I arrived at the narrative.
- 07:37And and who would like to say just
- 07:40more about the Clotilda and? Sort of.
- 07:45Go ahead, Margaret.
- 07:47Sure. So the story is in 1859
- 07:52the ship there was a bet and.
- 07:56One of the Timothy Mayer made a
- 07:58bet with some local businessman
- 08:00that he could smuggle slaves.
- 08:02Even though the slave trade was abolished,
- 08:04there was still slavery.
- 08:05And he made a bet that he could smuggle
- 08:09110 Africans into the United States.
- 08:12And he did he he did this.
- 08:15It was a crime punishable by death,
- 08:17but it was kind of one of those nudge,
- 08:19nudge, wink, wink things.
- 08:20It was still a fear that you could be
- 08:23caught by the federal authorities,
- 08:24but he bragged about it in the local paper.
- 08:28And when the ship got here,
- 08:29it was burned, and the effort,
- 08:31the enslaved Africans who were brought over
- 08:34had to hide in the swamp for two weeks,
- 08:36and then they dispersed to
- 08:41different plantations and.
- 08:44This some of them went up to Selma,
- 08:46some of them were still in Mobile County.
- 08:50And this film particularly focuses on the
- 08:53descendants that settled in Africa Town,
- 08:56which is Happy Hills Magazine,
- 08:58Point, Plateau,
- 08:59some of the names that we've sort of
- 09:01been throwing around colloquially.
- 09:06So my first question really
- 09:08goes to Emmett and Veda.
- 09:10It's really about the power of knowing
- 09:12who one is and and where you come from.
- 09:15So if you could talk about the
- 09:18importance of ones or yours,
- 09:20your connection to your ancestors.
- 09:27I love the way Emmett said that this
- 09:28is a story about not about slavery,
- 09:30but about a superhero story.
- 09:33Because when we grew up with this story,
- 09:37we were never taught that.
- 09:39Like somebody sat down and
- 09:40said this is this is it.
- 09:42You were on the Clotilda and remember this.
- 09:44You know, I was never taught like that.
- 09:46It's just a part of our story,
- 09:47just a part of my family history. But.
- 09:51I just think it's really important.
- 09:54I I feel privileged to know who I am,
- 09:57to know where my family came from.
- 09:59I don't know exactly whether it
- 10:01was from Nigeria or Ghana because
- 10:04you know we were captured by.
- 10:07The Dahomey warriors which?
- 10:10Kind of conflicts me when I watched
- 10:11the woman King because although
- 10:13I love the power of those women,
- 10:14it's like those women also were.
- 10:16They represent the women who
- 10:18probably captured my ancestors and
- 10:20are responsible for us being here.
- 10:22But I'm so privileged to know
- 10:25my link to Africa.
- 10:26And to know that my ancestors were
- 10:29so strong and so resourceful that
- 10:31they found that this community,
- 10:34they're still here today,
- 10:35but they had the foresight to
- 10:37continue to tell us who we are.
- 10:45Well, for me. Like like Beatles saying
- 10:51is is is good for you to know where you
- 10:54come from and you know who you are.
- 10:56Like for me, I never, I never had that
- 10:59that emptiness of not knowing who I was.
- 11:01Like I've always knew and.
- 11:04Like she's saying to go all the
- 11:06way back to knowing at least
- 11:08like you know you was the capio.
- 11:11I know that Cujo wasn't a cat captain.
- 11:14I knew that my whole life.
- 11:15I knew he was one of the people,
- 11:17that it was just one of the
- 11:19last few people they needed.
- 11:20They needed a few more.
- 11:22So after they had them sold out,
- 11:24sold out the captives,
- 11:25they went in and kidnapped Cudjoe
- 11:27and some other people. So.
- 11:29Just by me knowing that like it,
- 11:32it makes me feel empowered
- 11:33by knowing who I am.
- 11:35And like, in the words of my father,
- 11:38like I said,
- 11:38I talked to my father a lot because
- 11:41that's what this story is for me.
- 11:43Like I don't have my father no more.
- 11:45So this, this story is a reminder of,
- 11:48you know, me and my father every day.
- 11:50So for me it was like in
- 11:51the words of my father,
- 11:53if you don't know who you
- 11:54are or where you come from,
- 11:56then you'll never know where you going.
- 11:57So that's how I've always looked at it.
- 12:02And can you share any more about
- 12:05the superhero of Cujo Lewis well?
- 12:10It is some stories like first First off,
- 12:12my, my dad's my first superhero.
- 12:15My dad's always my first superhero.
- 12:17I still remember in first grade
- 12:19when they asked me they was like,
- 12:22what do you want to be when you grow up?
- 12:23I say my father and I drew
- 12:25a little picture of my dad.
- 12:26My dad was a Vietnam vet who was a POW.
- 12:30And that story of his own,
- 12:33you know, hell, wait for me.
- 12:34So when you hear him talk so great
- 12:36about another another person,
- 12:38like it was amazing. And.
- 12:41To me like I said I didn't get
- 12:43the privilege of seeing Cujo.
- 12:44I didn't get the privilege of of
- 12:46being around on my grandfather
- 12:47had the privilege of being raised
- 12:49by him for 14 years.
- 12:50So we we're a direct you know
- 12:53connection to Cujo and to hear
- 12:55how my my father talked about him
- 12:57and say and Cujo was a king Cujo.
- 13:00Cujo was destined to be a king
- 13:02but he was cut short of that.
- 13:04His life was cut short of that
- 13:05because he he was captured and
- 13:07brought here but then he said
- 13:09but he's always been a warrior.
- 13:12And.
- 13:12Like once I got older I heard people
- 13:14they say like you get so many
- 13:16mixed stories about it while you're
- 13:18growing up as a child your your,
- 13:20your mind is so immature to to
- 13:22be able to grasp all of that.
- 13:24So you hear certain people saying ohh man,
- 13:27they say Joe,
- 13:28they said could you cry every day?
- 13:30But there I go talk to my dad and he said,
- 13:33yeah,
- 13:33because you cried every day
- 13:35because he knew all of his kids,
- 13:37all of his people,
- 13:39everybody that made it and
- 13:41survived that ride here.
- 13:43There,
- 13:44their kids will never be able to see home,
- 13:46so he cried for home.
- 13:48It wasn't like he was just crying
- 13:49because he was stuck and captured.
- 13:51Like he was crying because he
- 13:53wanted all of his descendants
- 13:54to know where home was,
- 13:56but he knew there was no chance
- 13:58of it happening.
- 14:03Thank you for that. Karen,
- 14:06were you going to say something? Ohh
- 14:09no. I was just, I was just listening
- 14:12to Emmett and thinking about how
- 14:14the the power storytelling among
- 14:17the folks and in Africatown on just
- 14:19it helps redress a lot of racial
- 14:22inequity through collective memory
- 14:24and storytelling and the uncovering
- 14:26and reshaping of collective memory.
- 14:29And so I was just wanting to Amen.
- 14:33Well, that that was my next
- 14:35question actually for you.
- 14:37So what what are oral history
- 14:39and oral traditions and what,
- 14:42what are the origins of of them
- 14:45and what's the importance in
- 14:47terms of for Africa town of these
- 14:50opportunities and tradition, right,
- 14:52I can only explain it through
- 14:54through spending so much time with
- 14:57this particular group of folks.
- 14:59It's just a it's like verbalized
- 15:01and collective memory.
- 15:03And not everybody is like
- 15:05Emmitt or Vita or Joycelyn.
- 15:06Not everybody is identified
- 15:08by the Community Beavers,
- 15:10repositories of the story, right?
- 15:12They're getting it direct,
- 15:14one to one.
- 15:15And the rest of us are sort of
- 15:18living that we don't know our
- 15:21ancestors so we're living through
- 15:23the the the oral traditions that
- 15:25they were bestowed and I think
- 15:27it's it's just the the notion of.
- 15:35Having a relationship.
- 15:36And and and one of the things that
- 15:39that the story story has done is it
- 15:41has buoyed the the self esteem of the
- 15:44broader black population of mobile AL.
- 15:47So this notion of oral Ness,
- 15:49this notion of people coming home
- 15:51from Mardi Gras to Mobile County
- 15:53to Africatown to to meet and greet
- 15:55and for lack of a better term,
- 15:57run with the wolves of your own
- 15:59kind so that you can know who
- 16:01you are and whose you are.
- 16:03It's more than just storytelling, right?
- 16:06It's like storytelling on steroids, you know?
- 16:11And and so. And in the oral tradition,
- 16:14sort of contemplating.
- 16:15The ever present consequences of
- 16:18of things that happen to your foe.
- 16:20Right.
- 16:21And so that so that whatever you
- 16:23learn from it can be applied
- 16:26to your everyday life.
- 16:27And so that's sort of how I think about
- 16:29oral narrative and how it functions.
- 16:35So, Margaret and Kern,
- 16:37can you talk about the power of
- 16:40silence and intimidation in?
- 16:43Africa Town and probably
- 16:44so many other places,
- 16:46but as it played out in Africa Town.
- 16:55Sorry, I keep forgetting the mute button.
- 16:57I I you know just knowing that there
- 17:00is I mean Emmett talks about the
- 17:03superhero aspect of it and that's
- 17:05obviously indefinitely how I feel just
- 17:08that this this is the incredible story
- 17:11of resistance and the power of the
- 17:13oral narrative to like pass something
- 17:15down that was the whole you know,
- 17:17white power structure was trying to suppress.
- 17:21And yeah I mean it's it's.
- 17:25Yeah, it's, it's it's the last
- 17:28known lynching is in mobile,
- 17:30AL and Michael Donald and I
- 17:33believe it's 1984, right, Kern?
- 17:388686. And there is a very, you know,
- 17:45definitive power and mobile of,
- 17:47of the threat of violence.
- 17:48So, and this was a story that
- 17:51went counter to the narrative.
- 17:53I mean, when my mother told me the story,
- 17:56the way she said it,
- 17:58she obviously believed it was true.
- 18:00I knew when she told me that
- 18:02she believed it was true.
- 18:04But it wasn't something you didn't in,
- 18:06in, in, in, white, mobile.
- 18:08It wasn't something that was
- 18:10really spoken of was the sense I
- 18:13got from the way that she told me.
- 18:16And it wasn't something that was taught.
- 18:17I think now Joycelyn,
- 18:18who's not with us right now,
- 18:20but she always talks about how the
- 18:23story of of the Clotilda is in the
- 18:25history in the Alabama history book.
- 18:27But I don't remember any public
- 18:29school teacher spending any.
- 18:31I don't remember hearing about it.
- 18:32It wasn't something.
- 18:34That was even though it's it's definitely,
- 18:37you know historically one of the most
- 18:39important things to happen in Alabama,
- 18:41if not the definitive thing.
- 18:44It wasn't something that we studied.
- 18:46So it was something that was suppressed.
- 18:48It was something that was silenced
- 18:51and just the power of the words
- 18:53that were passed down and the
- 18:55fact that like Emmett and Beta
- 18:57and Joycelyn were chosen by their
- 19:00community to be the repositories,
- 19:02you know and to and to claim this narrative.
- 19:04And not have it be forgotten.
- 19:06I just saw such incredible power in
- 19:08that just like this, the sort of.
- 19:11Resilience of that.
- 19:16Yeah, I'd like.
- 19:17I'd like to sort of echo that.
- 19:18I mean, the intimidation comes from
- 19:20there are 119 people on this zoom.
- 19:23Right. And that's that's more folk
- 19:25than in mobile AL from Chamber of
- 19:27Commerce that's wanted to touch
- 19:29our narrative with a 10 foot pole
- 19:31mostly because they're trying to
- 19:33wait out the height so they can go
- 19:35back to putting tar sands underneath
- 19:37the the middle school playground.
- 19:41So that's a type that's intimidation
- 19:43to know that we will just wait
- 19:45you all out until to the attention
- 19:48falls to the wayside.
- 19:49The silence is is y'all are the
- 19:53ones who study trauma, right?
- 19:56Y'all are the ones who study.
- 19:58You know,
- 19:59how people sort of how it goes
- 20:02to people's core and they pass
- 20:04it on to their children.
- 20:06And one of the things about,
- 20:08about,
- 20:08about the silence on this is that
- 20:11we just get into 2024 when we could
- 20:13talk about redressing that and trying
- 20:15to be healthy about it, right?
- 20:18Trying not to get too high or get too low.
- 20:21All these Christian churches
- 20:23down here in the.
- 20:24Baptist, the Southern Baptist,
- 20:26the Episcopalians, the Catholics.
- 20:30The Muslim.
- 20:32The Jews.
- 20:34Incredibly silent.
- 20:39Right. These are our neighbors.
- 20:41Ain't heard from him.
- 20:44Affects their pocketbooks that they speak up.
- 20:48So I think they intimidated. You know,
- 20:51Joyce and Avita and and Emma's family,
- 20:54they have family reunion every year
- 20:55and they tell the the little children,
- 20:57they are silent at all.
- 20:59It's the neighbors who are silent,
- 21:01the people at my university who.
- 21:03Haven't wanted to sort of investigate
- 21:05the fact that my university is
- 21:07directly tied to the lumber industry.
- 21:10That caused the cancer contemporarily
- 21:14in Africatown. Scared.
- 21:18Because that capitalist system.
- 21:20Doesn't wanna be interrupt.
- 21:22We bring jobs,
- 21:23we're gonna sacrifice y'all with the cancer,
- 21:25but we bring jobs.
- 21:28And then, you know,
- 21:30like Anderson Flynn says in the movie,
- 21:32y'all seen the movie.
- 21:34You've heard Vida and Emmett's testimony.
- 21:36You know.
- 21:38All the folks at grand
- 21:39rounds gonna be silent.
- 21:41Are you gonna help global globally,
- 21:43help your neighbor.
- 21:44All the talent and brilliance
- 21:46y'all got up there.
- 21:47So,
- 21:48so when I think about silence
- 21:50and intimidation,
- 21:50it's it's sort of a fluid thing.
- 21:55I think to also go along with what
- 21:57Doctor Jackson just said, the.
- 22:01There is still internal intimidation.
- 22:03Like I was really reluctant to even
- 22:05identify the university that I work for.
- 22:07I work for the same university
- 22:09that Doctor Jackson does,
- 22:10and even reluctant with being in
- 22:12leadership at my university to connect
- 22:14this story to them for fear of not knowing
- 22:17what happens to me professionally.
- 22:19If they realize who I am,
- 22:22they might not realize who I am
- 22:24because the story is so disconnected.
- 22:26In different parts of mobile,
- 22:27there are people celebrating the film
- 22:29itself and celebrating the celebrity.
- 22:32But they're not celebrating the
- 22:33story and their connection to it.
- 22:39Well. Just go back to what
- 22:43Doctor Kern was saying, like.
- 22:48With the silence,
- 22:49I never felt the silence like.
- 22:51I tell a lot of people that I'm
- 22:55fortunate that I was born in 1990,
- 22:57so I didn't feel the hey,
- 23:00we can't talk about this.
- 23:02Everything that I got.
- 23:03Was this your story?
- 23:04Make sure you know. But.
- 23:08Like Margaret was saying
- 23:10with the history book thing.
- 23:13There was a picture of my grandfather.
- 23:15There was a picture of him
- 23:16in in the history book.
- 23:17When I came up,
- 23:18I knew it was an Alabama history book,
- 23:20but it's one of those seed, figure 3.
- 23:23And then you go down there and look at
- 23:25the little picture and they say Cudjoe,
- 23:28Kazoola Lewis,
- 23:28last slave off the slave ship in Alabama.
- 23:32That's it.
- 23:33That's, that's that's the whole
- 23:34story that I had on it. But.
- 23:37I never lived in the silence
- 23:40I always lived through.
- 23:42Tell them who you are.
- 23:43There's your family.
- 23:44Make sure they know.
- 23:45So I'm one of those headstrong people,
- 23:47like I know who I am,
- 23:49but in the same sense.
- 23:51It took me a while growing up
- 23:53to realize that it was a lot of
- 23:55people that knew their story.
- 23:56They couldn't talk about it for a long time.
- 23:59Right.
- 23:59And so it took me awhile to figure that out.
- 24:02But in the same,
- 24:03in the same sense of me figuring that out,
- 24:06I started to figure out everything
- 24:08that I thought was right.
- 24:09Like towards growing up, how he was living.
- 24:12I had to figure out that that was wrong.
- 24:14Like,
- 24:14I heard stories about everyone in our
- 24:16community that worked for the paper company,
- 24:19the paper mill.
- 24:20I've heard that.
- 24:20And all they do was, oh man, we may we,
- 24:24we used to work for the paper mill,
- 24:25but none of them are getting
- 24:27anything from it, no.
- 24:29Benefits, anything.
- 24:30Retirement,
- 24:30all they're getting none of that.
- 24:33But they're not even understanding
- 24:35that that was part of the
- 24:37thing that was killing us too,
- 24:38so.
- 24:39They confuse the people over here
- 24:41to make us feel like everything
- 24:43that was going on around us.
- 24:45For one, we can't talk about the story,
- 24:48but for two, we have to accept it.
- 24:51We'll give you a job,
- 24:53but just don't pay attention to us.
- 24:56When they smoke out and killing you.
- 24:57So that's that's that's that was the
- 25:00knowledge that I had to gain while
- 25:02growing up in the same environment
- 25:04that these people were living in
- 25:06like we were still living in the in the 90s.
- 25:09That's that was that was a tough you
- 25:12know wake up call for me and then to be.
- 25:15One of the people that,
- 25:16like I said,
- 25:17I was going,
- 25:17I we we go to school there for one.
- 25:19There's a whole pipeline running
- 25:20under the school now and it ain't
- 25:22nothing we can do about it.
- 25:23Pipeline, none of that.
- 25:24They say be quiet.
- 25:25But.
- 25:25I was actually in school when
- 25:27one of the chemical trains
- 25:29fell off the train.
- 25:31And they treated it like a fire drill,
- 25:34like they took us outside to the field.
- 25:36And as a child, you know,
- 25:38we just thinking, hey, we can go play
- 25:39with our friends and other classes,
- 25:41run around, grab a football, you know,
- 25:44until they tell us to go back in.
- 25:45But I had to think about it, man.
- 25:47We sat outside for an hour. Which?
- 25:51Maybe we should have been inside.
- 25:52That was a chemical train
- 25:54off the train like you.
- 25:55It'll take you to get older to
- 25:56actually realize what they did.
- 25:58And finally, an hour and a half later,
- 26:002 hours later, they say, oh,
- 26:02we called all y'all parents,
- 26:03so y'all go to the front of the
- 26:05school so they can pick you up like.
- 26:07Those are the things we was living
- 26:09with in the 90s and to me it
- 26:11kind of feel like those are the
- 26:12things that you should have been
- 26:14going through in the 60s and 70s.
- 26:15Like well,
- 26:16we should have been going through it,
- 26:17but that time era for what I live.
- 26:22You know,
- 26:22it seemed older than what what the
- 26:24time out we were going through.
- 26:31Thank you for that.
- 26:36Which which of the panelists would be
- 26:38able to just tell us a little bit more
- 26:41about Africa Town and how it came to be?
- 26:46OK, I'll, I'll try that one.
- 26:48So Africatown was built right there
- 26:51where the confluence of the trains met.
- 26:55Right before the trail yard or the rail yard.
- 26:58And it was also prior to that, it's where?
- 27:02The magazine for the Confederacy
- 27:04was was stored Africatown.
- 27:06Actually at one point in Time magazine
- 27:08point blew up during the Civil War because
- 27:10it was too many munitions there and they
- 27:12had a large like 17 block explosion.
- 27:14But anyway plateau is up above
- 27:18the River Mobile river.
- 27:20And it came to be because it's where
- 27:24the mills like turpentine lumber free
- 27:27assault it was where all these things
- 27:29were being sort of manufactured,
- 27:31processed and it was borne out
- 27:34of a community of Labor that was
- 27:36that was there as well.
- 27:38And so it's sort of the and and
- 27:40it the same people who live there
- 27:42then aren't necessarily the
- 27:43same people who live there now.
- 27:45It's never a one to one correlation
- 27:47because of migration patterns.
- 27:48But it had to do with where
- 27:51people were working.
- 27:52Right.
- 27:52And the fact that you had commissaries
- 27:55for those companies located in in
- 27:57that in that area and then eventually,
- 28:00you know like the first school
- 28:02M&M's people and Vietnamese people
- 28:04who off the clotel,
- 28:06their descendants provided the
- 28:07land for the Black first Black High
- 28:09School which just happened to be in
- 28:11Africa Town in the state of Alabama.
- 28:13So all these sort of things came together,
- 28:17the notion of the LNN railroad
- 28:19and and the stockyard there,
- 28:21of the the train yard there and
- 28:23being in Central Park on the river.
- 28:26With these industries where they could
- 28:27bring the product in and get it out,
- 28:29it's it's sort of a reason why
- 28:31Africa Town came into existence.
- 28:37Was there a piece of purchasing
- 28:40land back from? The.
- 28:43Mayor family. What's that story?
- 28:51I can talk about that.
- 28:52Joycelyn actually reads part of that
- 28:55from Zora Neale Hurston's book.
- 28:57In the film, Cujo goes to Timothy Mayer
- 29:01and asked asked to go back to Africa.
- 29:05This is something that's in barracoon,
- 29:07and there's sections in the film where we.
- 29:11Where there's there's three from the
- 29:14descendants, Emmett has a reading,
- 29:17Joycelyn has a reading,
- 29:18and Timothy Mayer says,
- 29:22you know, I've done basically
- 29:23says I've done right by you,
- 29:25you can't go home and.
- 29:28So the descendants poles pull
- 29:30together their money and and
- 29:32buy some of the land back.
- 29:36I don't know. I'm sorry.
- 29:40I'll, I was going to say. From like with me,
- 29:44I I've read the books I thanks to Margaret,
- 29:48Margaret brung a lot of that to my life
- 29:51because I at one point in my life I didn't
- 29:53want to read anything because I felt like it
- 29:56would tarnish like what my family told me.
- 29:58But once I read this audio book.
- 30:03That book was like the closest thing
- 30:05to what my family had told me.
- 30:08And like one thing I do remember,
- 30:11like I like, I like I said, when I talk
- 30:13in the movie I talk about the graveyard.
- 30:14So most of the stories that I give you,
- 30:16those are coming from the graveyard
- 30:18at 3:00 o'clock in the morning, so.
- 30:21One thing I remember my dad saying,
- 30:23my dad said that we did buy it,
- 30:25but he said how it was was.
- 30:29Because I went to Mr. Mayor and say.
- 30:33That. He wanted to, he said,
- 30:36why can't you give us the land?
- 30:38And Mr. Mayor told him why?
- 30:40Why would I give you property
- 30:42on top of property,
- 30:43saying that you know the people free already,
- 30:45so why would I give you?
- 30:47Land and I already gave you all freedom now,
- 30:50so be happy like that was what I was told.
- 30:52And then I was told that.
- 30:55Because I went back to the people,
- 30:57told him what what it was,
- 30:59and they all agreed on working for it.
- 31:02So some of them even work from Mr.
- 31:05Mayor.
- 31:06They worked on Steamboat
- 31:07Railroad coming railroad tracks.
- 31:08Like those were stories that I heard.
- 31:10And they worked until they build
- 31:13up enough money as a whole,
- 31:15as a unit.
- 31:16Like everybody pitched in together
- 31:17and they bought this land.
- 31:27And it just reminds me of the importance
- 31:29probably in many communities,
- 31:30but in the African American community,
- 31:32importance of owning land and
- 31:35holding on to that and passing
- 31:38it down to family members.
- 31:40I don't know if anyone wants to.
- 31:42Touch on on that importance
- 31:44of land and ownership.
- 31:46Well, I can. I can tell you on that
- 31:48one again, because I'm I'm living
- 31:50through it now, just like I said.
- 31:53I was always told my whole life that,
- 31:55uh, you know, my people,
- 31:56you know, purchase this land.
- 31:58But hey, I don't have a piece of land here.
- 32:00I'm renting the house here.
- 32:00I've been reading the house since I got
- 32:02out of the Marine Corps and came back here.
- 32:04And it's not like, you know.
- 32:07I want to is just this is my community.
- 32:10That's all I know.
- 32:10So when I came from the Marine Corps,
- 32:12I came back home and it's it's
- 32:15just so much that's tied into the
- 32:17land out here and a lot of stuff
- 32:21that's going on with it that.
- 32:23It it would have been very important
- 32:26for us to be able to keep track of
- 32:28that and pass that down because we
- 32:30wouldn't be going through as much as
- 32:32we're going through now just trying
- 32:34to see what the land is or would
- 32:36belong to and how to get it back.
- 32:44And I don't have a piece
- 32:45of land in Africa town.
- 32:46Unfortunately, my family moved out,
- 32:48you know, my great grandmother in
- 32:51that generation moved out for what my
- 32:54mother just described as a better life.
- 32:57So it kind of speaks to what?
- 33:01It kind of speaks to what was happening
- 33:03in Africa Town to begin with that.
- 33:06You know, the industry surrounding
- 33:08Africa town and the conditions that
- 33:11people were living in just were
- 33:13not conducive to a better life.
- 33:15So unfortunately generations
- 33:16later like I don't have,
- 33:18I don't have a voice in Africa Town as
- 33:20far as having a piece of land either.
- 33:25Thank you for that.
- 33:27You're trying to make some money to
- 33:29get him at that Barber shop and get
- 33:32get beat at that space where they can
- 33:34run their their Realty company out of.
- 33:37So, you know, I mean let's be real
- 33:39if if there's someone on the zoom
- 33:41can help Emmett and Vito get that
- 33:44piece of land. Much obliged.
- 33:46Yeah, we're working on Land
- 33:48Trust issues for the community.
- 33:50I mean, it's a long, it's a long road,
- 33:53but that's definitely something.
- 33:55If you go to descendantfilm.com,
- 33:57which is an evolving site,
- 34:00it's this is something we're
- 34:01working on as a collective.
- 34:06So much. There are so many.
- 34:08So many issues out,
- 34:09just one more point about that.
- 34:11So many issues like and it said about
- 34:13the land that once you find the land
- 34:15you have to determine who owns it.
- 34:17And once you determine who owns it,
- 34:19you have to determine if you can acquire it.
- 34:21And even if you acquire it,
- 34:22what is it zoned as?
- 34:24So there are so many stipulations as to what
- 34:26can be done with the land that is there.
- 34:29It's just. Umm.
- 34:30It's it's really confusing,
- 34:33and like I've heard Margaret say before,
- 34:35it was probably intentional
- 34:36for it to be that confusing.
- 34:42Yeah, just one more little piece on
- 34:46that like it goes along with that
- 34:48other question that we were talking
- 34:50about too like towards the passing
- 34:51down of the land and all of that like.
- 34:54A lot of people have to understand that,
- 34:56like all the way. It took a while,
- 34:58but all the way to my generation,
- 35:01we was never, we was never
- 35:03taught to to honor this land.
- 35:05We was never taught to just hold on
- 35:07to this land. We was always taught,
- 35:09get out, get a better life.
- 35:12So in the process of them brainwashing
- 35:15us to not honor our land.
- 35:18We taught our kids.
- 35:19Don't don't care about what
- 35:21we got going on here.
- 35:22Just get out and get a better life.
- 35:24So by us doing that,
- 35:26so many generations,
- 35:27that's what caused the confusion on the land.
- 35:38Thank you. What is shift gears a little
- 35:41bit and just ask the beat or or any
- 35:43of the other panelists what's the
- 35:45power of the there was an unveiling
- 35:48of the illustration of the cold and
- 35:50just what what was that like for you?
- 35:56I can speak to that.
- 35:57That was documented in the film.
- 35:59I remember.
- 36:00I remember it so well that even. When?
- 36:08When that illustration was unveiled.
- 36:12I remember just being struck by the
- 36:17black bodies in the hold of that ship.
- 36:19I didn't see the beauty of the art.
- 36:21It didn't even matter.
- 36:24There there was.
- 36:28Fred, I can't remember his name
- 36:30in the in the film from National
- 36:32Geographic that was talking
- 36:33about how wonderful it was, but.
- 36:37It just shows you how detached
- 36:39from this story people are,
- 36:41because it is a story to people.
- 36:43But when I looked at that that
- 36:46illustration, all I could see was.
- 36:55Looks like she burns.
- 36:59Think she froze. Hopefully she'll
- 37:02she'll be able to. Usually.
- 37:07Anybody else can speak to that, Emmett?
- 37:10The oh, there she is. Come back. Great.
- 37:15OK, OK. Yeah. My Internet
- 37:17connection is unstable as it
- 37:19just told me. Can you hear me?
- 37:24Maybe not.
- 37:29Ohh, maybe she'll be able to rejoin Emmett.
- 37:31Were you gonna say something about?
- 37:34Your reaction response to the
- 37:38illustration. Come back, everybody.
- 37:42Awesome. We'll let you go
- 37:43and then we'll let Emmett go.
- 37:46OK, I'm sorry. I sure hate this
- 37:49up here in the in the country.
- 37:53I was just saying that when
- 37:55I saw that illustration,
- 37:56I don't know how much you missed,
- 37:58but when I saw that I was able to see.
- 38:02My grandparents that I know,
- 38:04like I saw grandma.
- 38:06Is that was my great grandmother.
- 38:08I could see her being in the hold
- 38:11of that ship and just imagine that
- 38:13these people would do that to.
- 38:15To our people just because
- 38:17we're black bodies?
- 38:18Just because we're black people.
- 38:20And it it just hurts so
- 38:22much because you can't.
- 38:23You can't even imagine your
- 38:25grandparents being treated like that.
- 38:31I would say for me,
- 38:33or I didn't go to unveil and I didn't.
- 38:38If you notice in the movie I didn't
- 38:40go to none of the things where they
- 38:42even found the ship, any of that.
- 38:44I got phone calls about it, but.
- 38:49I never really cared about it,
- 38:51I'll be honest. Like, I hate to say it.
- 38:54If I offend somebody, I'm sorry, but it is.
- 38:57It's just like,
- 38:58that's that's worshipping the gun like that.
- 39:01That really is you worshipping the
- 39:03murder weapon, like for me.
- 39:07It it was nothing concerning the ship.
- 39:09It was all about the people
- 39:10that was on that ship.
- 39:11So it's it's basically like.
- 39:15One of your grandparents getting killed
- 39:17and somebody finally figuring out,
- 39:19OK, he was stabbed and then everybody
- 39:22praised the knife.
- 39:23Now it's not about that knife,
- 39:25it's it's about my granddad. So.
- 39:27For me it was like I I never,
- 39:29I never cared about their self.
- 39:31Like I'm I'm happy.
- 39:32I know the name of it,
- 39:33but I don't care about it.
- 39:35Like my my people,
- 39:36we made it here and we still surviving.
- 39:38So that's the only story I care about.
- 39:40I don't care about how they were set up
- 39:42in the ship because I don't want that pain.
- 39:44I already feel it.
- 39:45I already feel that I and I know,
- 39:48I know from what my family told me.
- 39:52On the conditions of what
- 39:53my people went through.
- 39:54So what?
- 39:55What do I need somebody to
- 39:56paint a picture for me for?
- 39:58What do I need to go touch a piece
- 40:00piece of wood for the feeling
- 40:02like I'm I'm good with that?
- 40:06And Emmett and I feel the same
- 40:08way about that about the ship.
- 40:09Well, actually all of the descendants I
- 40:11heard from feel the same way about the ship.
- 40:13We use different words.
- 40:14I say and say it's about worshipping the gun.
- 40:17I say it's like the prison cell.
- 40:19Who wants to go visit the prison
- 40:20cell that we were kept in?
- 40:22So we don't care about
- 40:24the ship when you hear.
- 40:26I I feel like we just sort of tune out the
- 40:28people who are who are focused on the ship.
- 40:30We are all about the people who came
- 40:33here on the ship and who survived
- 40:35and that we are descended from.
- 40:37So you know,
- 40:38the Clotilda is just a part.
- 40:39It's just how you identify us
- 40:41in in the part of the country
- 40:43that we're in or whatever.
- 40:44But we don't care about the ship.
- 40:47And what's so interesting about the
- 40:49ship is the ship is what the state
- 40:51government has decided to focus on.
- 40:53Not on the people of Africa town
- 40:55that the state state representative
- 40:57has decided, for the most part,
- 41:00to focus on tourism in Africa Town.
- 41:02Not the conditions of the people,
- 41:04the children at that.
- 41:07It started.
- 41:10So.
- 41:12That's crazy, right?
- 41:14We want to rerun to bring the ship up.
- 41:16We want to bring the
- 41:17underwater archaeologist and
- 41:18wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We
- 41:20got to fail in school in the neighborhood.
- 41:23We we got ditches full of toxic
- 41:25materials in the neighborhood.
- 41:28Right. And so that's that's the great
- 41:31irony of of the of the body politic
- 41:34around part of this narrative.
- 41:37So relatedly, one of the reactions I had
- 41:41to the film that's also here in the chat,
- 41:43just the the idea of this,
- 41:45this is a great celebration and and
- 41:48you have proclamations and you have
- 41:50other things and so the question
- 41:52from Dan Shelter in the chat.
- 41:55Just your your reactions to that.
- 41:59This idea of a great celebration.
- 42:05That's a question for anybody.
- 42:06Anybody. Anybody. Ohh. OK.
- 42:08I hate to even be blunt about this.
- 42:11What we celebrating?
- 42:14By the time that everybody else hear the
- 42:16story and by time everybody think it's true,
- 42:18but what we celebrating the jobs not done.
- 42:22In the words of the great Kobe Bryant,
- 42:23I'm a big basketball fan,
- 42:25but y'all not done. Is not.
- 42:27This is just this is just now.
- 42:30Everybody else want to hear it like we.
- 42:33Me, I I know for a fact I've.
- 42:35I've been,
- 42:36I've been telling the story of my
- 42:37whole life in a way that I was given.
- 42:41Once all of this stuff started coming out, I,
- 42:44I, I don't see no reason to celebrate yet.
- 42:47They found catella, OK,
- 42:48I ain't celebrating.
- 42:49They they they repainted a picture.
- 42:51OK, I ain't celebrating.
- 42:53The only thing that I am proud about,
- 42:55and I'm proud to say that I was a part of it,
- 42:57was the film so that the world could see.
- 43:00There's nothing to celebrate yet.
- 43:03Ohh celebrate when I get ready to lay
- 43:05back in my casket and I understand that
- 43:07everything that I worked for forward
- 43:08towards Africa time is still here,
- 43:10still thriving and still trying to survive.
- 43:18I love immense bluntness to.
- 43:22I agree. It's not.
- 43:23There's nothing to celebrate right now.
- 43:25I'm glad that the film brought
- 43:26so much attention to Africa
- 43:28Town because we are using the
- 43:30light to get some things done,
- 43:32to shine the light on the
- 43:35silence and mobile and.
- 43:37You know, the silence makes them complicit.
- 43:40So I think the film is just really
- 43:42showing everybody that the our
- 43:44local government is complicit in
- 43:46the conditions in Africa Town.
- 43:51I've enjoyed listening to to Margaret
- 43:54talk about you know from from thinking
- 43:57about this film as art about the
- 44:00ship as artifact because Margaret
- 44:02captured Kamal Siddiqui talking
- 44:04about the power of the artifacts.
- 44:07What do you think, Margaret?
- 44:11I mean, I, I agree with what emman
- 44:13or navitor saying completely.
- 44:15The only thing I would say about the artifact
- 44:18is that it does like, Umm, you know,
- 44:21I knew at a certain point that Umm, you know,
- 44:25I didn't think they would find the ship.
- 44:27I really didn't. And I knew that,
- 44:30you know, when I met Emmett,
- 44:32when I met Vito and I met Joycelyn when
- 44:34I met Ram, there's like the people,
- 44:36the storytelling and the community of
- 44:38Africatown, I think in the South in general,
- 44:40but particularly in a place like Africa.
- 44:42Town, where the oral tradition
- 44:43is so powerful and so necessary.
- 44:46Like when you meet that many
- 44:48master storytellers,
- 44:49you're kind of in awe of what you meet.
- 44:51You're just.
- 44:52I remember sometimes the crew was
- 44:54just like what is even happening,
- 44:56like because you know,
- 44:57film crews work on a bunch of things.
- 44:59And then then you encounter this
- 45:02community where you everyone is,
- 45:04is so in control,
- 45:05creatively of of the power of their voices.
- 45:08It's astonishing.
- 45:09And I remember the crew at night
- 45:12when we were.
- 45:13Not shooting.
- 45:13Everyone was just in awe like that.
- 45:16We we could kind of tell we were
- 45:19capturing this living history that
- 45:20had been ignored and it was it,
- 45:22it really moved the crew in ways that,
- 45:24you know, I've been doing this a long time.
- 45:26Like usually the crews kind of just
- 45:28like there, but this time everyone,
- 45:30you know, if there was a new person.
- 45:32Like I remember one time we had a
- 45:35Steadicam operator and he wasn't
- 45:36going to set on time and the second,
- 45:39the assistant camera Person, Beau,
- 45:41who had been with us for a long time.
- 45:43Was so angry at him because he didn't
- 45:46understand the power of what we were doing.
- 45:48And he yelled at him before I even got
- 45:50to set that if he didn't show up, like.
- 45:53So it was like this,
- 45:54you know,
- 45:55we knew what what we were doing the
- 45:57in service of the story was something
- 45:59we had to get it right, you know.
- 46:02And I kind of got off what Karen asked me.
- 46:06Karen, what did you ask me again?
- 46:08Oh, the artifact.
- 46:09So when you know, when I heard come out.
- 46:12I don't know how many people on this.
- 46:13They have seen the film,
- 46:14but Kamal Siddiqui is an African-American
- 46:18underwater archaeologist and
- 46:19I remember hearing him speak.
- 46:22To to the community once and talking
- 46:25about the power of the artifact to
- 46:28bring attention to these stories.
- 46:30Because I don't know if without
- 46:32even though I agree completely
- 46:34with with Vida and Emmett,
- 46:37without you know this artifact I
- 46:38don't know if so much attention
- 46:40and I and I would have made the
- 46:43film anyway like I I knew this oral
- 46:45tradition was enough but I also
- 46:49knew that that you know there.
- 46:52The the the power of of having the
- 46:54artifact to draw attention to it.
- 46:57And also I think there's something about.
- 47:01Kamal wrote a poem when he was in the
- 47:03hold of the Clotilda and and it is a
- 47:06tricky thing because it's about pain,
- 47:08it's about trauma. And I don't, I don't.
- 47:11I I think it's different for every person.
- 47:13But I think if we are empathetic people.
- 47:18You know and we can be open
- 47:21to to those feelings.
- 47:23There is power in remembering trauma and and
- 47:27I think to speak about this to this group,
- 47:30I think I I'd be curious what you guys think.
- 47:34But I do think as a as a white woman
- 47:37from the South there is something to
- 47:39me in in opening yourself up to the
- 47:43fullness of history and all its pain.
- 47:48Where I I do think there there
- 47:49is value in the artifact,
- 47:51but I am willing to talk about
- 47:53this in any way.
- 47:54And, you know,
- 47:55I I think it's there's a lot there.
- 47:58Can I say one more thing about the artifacts?
- 48:00I agree with Margaret that the
- 48:03artifact is important because.
- 48:05A part of this story is that they
- 48:08denied that this ever happened.
- 48:11They treated this story like
- 48:12it was a local myth or that,
- 48:15you know, all these people were
- 48:16lying about this fabled Clotilda.
- 48:18It never happened.
- 48:19White Mobile knew about it.
- 48:21The people in Timothy Mayer circle
- 48:23knew about it, but they tried.
- 48:26They it's like there's no crime
- 48:29if you can't find the ship.
- 48:31So the ship being found
- 48:32proved that it was true,
- 48:34so now they they have to account for it.
- 48:38So that's why it's important it proved
- 48:39to a lot of people like they ask us,
- 48:41are we excited about.
- 48:42That they found the ship and we're like.
- 48:45We told you it was there all along.
- 48:47I mean, we we.
- 48:48That's why we're even talking about it,
- 48:49is because we told you it existed.
- 48:51So why are we excited?
- 48:52Like now?
- 48:53OK, if you needed to hear it
- 48:55and you needed to see it then.
- 48:56Now you got it.
- 48:57So what are you going to do now?
- 49:00Yeah, that's that was the point.
- 49:02I was going to speak on the
- 49:04you always take my points,
- 49:05but that's that's what I was going to say.
- 49:08Like for us it's not it's not that we're
- 49:11saying why we don't care about the ship,
- 49:13brush it off is that we're saying the ship
- 49:15is important for the rest of the world.
- 49:18Is is not important for us
- 49:20because we already know.
- 49:21We already knew this **** was
- 49:23important for the rest of the
- 49:24world and it was important for
- 49:26their spark to make people listen.
- 49:28But it it was nothing.
- 49:30Like it was a celebration amongst us.
- 49:33Like we we were like, OK, hey,
- 49:35I heard they finally found it.
- 49:37Like all right.
- 49:38Like, that's what it was was.
- 49:41Doctor Cindy and that's that's what
- 49:43we were talking about in another
- 49:45conversation and that you know
- 49:46that's why I love the people I'm
- 49:48on here this this panel with right.
- 49:49I love these folks right because you
- 49:51asked me what is oral history or
- 49:54what is folklore whatever it's like
- 49:55illuminating these folks story and
- 49:57they own context they had the power
- 50:00they're sharing the contact with us.
- 50:02I mean this film and and this is a
- 50:04credit to Margaret and this film is
- 50:06a piece of art was purely Democratic
- 50:08small D Margaret was shoot something
- 50:10I would ask some questions.
- 50:11Maybe and and then she would show it to
- 50:13Vita and she would show it to him and say,
- 50:15is this right?
- 50:16Right and and that's some of that's
- 50:18some of the love that you see come
- 50:20off the screen and and the cinema
- 50:22verite and it's you know it's through
- 50:25these folks own creation through the
- 50:26through the narratives that that
- 50:28they appreciated in the context
- 50:30and the meaningful expressions that
- 50:32their people share that they they've
- 50:34been able to share with us which I
- 50:37think sort of it blunts that damn
- 50:39trauma of the whole.
- 50:41You know,
- 50:41Flashpoint where this stuff jumped off.
- 50:45And see where we are with that just
- 50:48a pigtail off you are, Doctor Kerr.
- 50:50Like with that I I want to
- 50:52give Margaret her flowers now
- 50:54because I know I always tell you.
- 50:57I appreciate you, Mario, but.
- 50:59The more that I look into this,
- 51:00this film, and the more I look into
- 51:02everything that we are doing, I'm.
- 51:04I'm starting to understand you actually
- 51:07did what Missouria did in her book on film.
- 51:10Like that's what I say.
- 51:13Was very unique about Africa Town
- 51:15too is you can talk to 50 or 60
- 51:18people over here and you're going
- 51:20to get 50 or 5050 or 60 different,
- 51:23you know, story about their family
- 51:25coming up through Africa town and
- 51:27the trauma that they dealt with
- 51:29like you're going to get there.
- 51:31So many different stories that tie
- 51:33back into that one trip on that ship.
- 51:36Like it's so many different stories
- 51:38that tie into it and at the same time
- 51:41like I was saying about Margaret was.
- 51:44When I read lawyer Neil Hudson
- 51:46Hershey's book.
- 51:48She tried to get as close to what
- 51:51Cudjo was was as possible and.
- 51:55I remember at times while filming.
- 51:59I know I I didn't feel like I was on camera.
- 52:01I felt like I was sitting there
- 52:03just talking to Morgan as a friend,
- 52:04just telling her what was going
- 52:06on or who my people was.
- 52:08And once the film came and she,
- 52:11you know,
- 52:12showed it to the first thing I said to her,
- 52:14I said I'm so happy that it was no changes.
- 52:17Like everything that we said,
- 52:20she put in that film as best as she could.
- 52:24She she didn't.
- 52:25And another thing,
- 52:26like I said,
- 52:27it's not like she came to you and
- 52:30asked the question and gave once
- 52:32you get your answer, she was like,
- 52:33can you see it like this?
- 52:35Or could you put it this way?
- 52:37It was just like, no, hey,
- 52:38I'm going to turn this camera on
- 52:40and I just want you to talk to me.
- 52:42So it was in the similar fashion of
- 52:45what I I felt happy with Cujo and Nazario.
- 52:49So that's why I said to capture that and
- 52:52put it on film that way where you see.
- 52:55Over a period of time,
- 52:56you even see the different emotions
- 52:58coming from us,
- 52:59like from the beginning of the
- 53:00movie to the end.
- 53:02So that's that's why I said that's
- 53:04what make that that is one thing
- 53:06about this story that make it
- 53:07unique is that you actually still
- 53:09getting people that's giving you
- 53:11the wrong side of their feelings.
- 53:16So I'm going to take Margaret up and
- 53:18open it up for discussion and dialogue
- 53:20about anything that you have heard.
- 53:23We only have about 10-11 minutes,
- 53:25but at some point just what do
- 53:27you all want for Africa Town?
- 53:29Now think about that and I'm going to
- 53:32open it up for questions and comments.
- 53:35Again. You can put it in the
- 53:38chat or you can send it to the
- 53:40anonymous link Latasha and Trish,
- 53:43if you could help me.
- 53:46Um, see if their hands raised just because
- 53:48I can't see all of the screens here.