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12/15 YES!: Abstract Art: Writing an Abstract That Will Get You Noticed - and Accepted

December 15, 2023
ID
11099

Transcript

  • 00:00This is Martin who you're going to
  • 00:02hear from today Co administrate and
  • 00:05direct the yes Yale Educator series.
  • 00:08So we're so excited to have you as
  • 00:12you know with the combination of
  • 00:14educator development series that
  • 00:17are ideally appealing and useful
  • 00:19for people whether you're teaching
  • 00:21in the clinical setting or the pre,
  • 00:24pre clerkship clinical setting.
  • 00:28And Andreas today has a great
  • 00:31one that's not only I think this
  • 00:34is probably applicable to any,
  • 00:35any faculty or resident.
  • 00:36So we're great that you're here.
  • 00:38It has to do with professional
  • 00:40development skill of scientific or or
  • 00:44other scholarship writing of abstracts.
  • 00:47So I'm just going to briefly
  • 00:49introduce Andreas Martin,
  • 00:50for those who may not know him,
  • 00:52but he's the Riva Ariela Rico,
  • 00:56pardon, no,
  • 00:57professor of child psychiatry
  • 01:00at the Child Study Center.
  • 01:03And he is also the medical director
  • 01:06of the Children's Psychiatric
  • 01:07Inpatient Service at the Yale
  • 01:09New Haven Children's Hospital.
  • 01:11And he's been part of the Center for
  • 01:16Medical Education for a long time and has,
  • 01:22I think it was maybe just three years ago.
  • 01:24Andreas,
  • 01:24you can tell me I'm wrong about
  • 01:27when you ended up finishing
  • 01:28your doctoral degree in medical
  • 01:31education from the Netherlands.
  • 01:33He's also the Editor in Chief and chief
  • 01:36of the Journal of the American Academy
  • 01:39of Child at Adolescent Psychiatry.
  • 01:41Or was until 2017.
  • 01:44And I'm really excited.
  • 01:46I've been enjoying learning from him.
  • 01:48So we're all going to be excited to be
  • 01:51better abstract writers 50 minutes from now.
  • 01:55Andreas,
  • 01:55turning it over to you.
  • 01:57Amen. Thank you, Dana.
  • 01:59And it's such a joy working with with Dana.
  • 02:03So to get CME credits,
  • 02:06please go ahead and text that
  • 02:08number to that phone.
  • 02:10We're also going to put
  • 02:11it in the in the chat.
  • 02:15OK. And the rest of the of
  • 02:16that says that I don't have
  • 02:18any conflicts of interest.
  • 02:19I'm not paid by abstracts of
  • 02:21America to give this talk, so
  • 02:25OK, So what are the learning
  • 02:27objectives today? First,
  • 02:29and this might seem strange at first,
  • 02:31but I hope that by the end of today
  • 02:33you will be able to differentiate an
  • 02:36abstract as a summary of a paper,
  • 02:38which I would argue is a bad
  • 02:40thing from seeing a paper as
  • 02:43an as an expanded abstract,
  • 02:45which I would argue is a good thing.
  • 02:48Hopefully this will become clear. Next
  • 02:54the commandment to all of us abstract
  • 02:57writers finding ways of shedding,
  • 02:59of of shedding the fluff and becoming
  • 03:02understated in our writing abstracts.
  • 03:07Finally, to be sure to incorporate
  • 03:10basic elements of writing and PGH,
  • 03:14here stands, I'll describe it further.
  • 03:16Stands for problem gap hook,
  • 03:19which is a strong heuristic to
  • 03:22writing including that and to
  • 03:25include elements of epidemiology,
  • 03:28problem, population, exposure,
  • 03:31comparison, outcome, and time.
  • 03:34And this is not just for epidemiology papers,
  • 03:38it's for the great majority of papers,
  • 03:41and something that's near and dear to my
  • 03:43heart and my current research I write.
  • 03:45I do mostly qualitative research,
  • 03:47so there are a couple of things
  • 03:49that are slightly different when
  • 03:50it comes to qualitative research,
  • 03:51and I'll point those out.
  • 03:55I love this quote from Pascal,
  • 03:5717th century, who said I'm sorry
  • 03:59that I wrote you such a long letter,
  • 04:02but I didn't have time to write a short one,
  • 04:05and there's great wisdom in that.
  • 04:07Writing short is really hard.
  • 04:10Another 17th century genius, Doctor Seuss,
  • 04:14said that short is better than length
  • 04:19and they were all on to something.
  • 04:24Now let let's get into this philosophical
  • 04:2717th century quill on hand mindset and I'm
  • 04:30going to ask you to do a mind experiment,
  • 04:32a thought experiment as we move along.
  • 04:35And that is, think of your last
  • 04:39abstract that you wrote, imagined,
  • 04:41or are imagining right now,
  • 04:44or revisited or wrote.
  • 04:45It'll be helpful to have a template
  • 04:47in your mind of an abstract.
  • 04:49So if you have written a lot,
  • 04:52you'll have many of those.
  • 04:53If you are just getting started
  • 04:55and writing them, that's fine,
  • 04:57you can just follow that mental sketch.
  • 05:00I think that if you do this,
  • 05:01you will get the most out of
  • 05:03our next minutes together.
  • 05:06The outline for the talk today is 3 parts.
  • 05:091st, why bother?
  • 05:10You know what's a big whoop Dee Doo with
  • 05:14abstracts and why does it matter anyway?
  • 05:17The second one is the content of
  • 05:19an abstract and this is where we're
  • 05:21going to spend most of our time.
  • 05:23What is the anatomy and the Physiology of
  • 05:26an abstract and how can we optimize it?
  • 05:29And finally,
  • 05:30we're going to close by a review of a
  • 05:33dozen tips to write a compelling abstract.
  • 05:36We will have covered most of this
  • 05:40by the time that we get there.
  • 05:44OK, so context. Why?
  • 05:46Why bothering?
  • 05:47Why does it matter?
  • 05:49Let me show you an X-ray of your brain
  • 05:52and mind and how we read papers.
  • 05:55So this is how not to read a paper.
  • 05:57But of course it's how we all usually
  • 06:00read papers and this is what happens.
  • 06:02So this here is a paper.
  • 06:05Doesn't matter the content,
  • 06:07but as soon as you open the paper,
  • 06:09your brain does this magical thing in
  • 06:12which everything goes Gray and you stop
  • 06:15paying attention because it's too scary,
  • 06:19detailed.
  • 06:20It's no good.
  • 06:23Instead you go to the introduction,
  • 06:25which in essence is a glorified
  • 06:26letter to the editor.
  • 06:28So already someone is trying to brainwash
  • 06:31you to tell you how wonderful their work is.
  • 06:34Then when it comes to the methods,
  • 06:36you simply skip those.
  • 06:38They're impenetrable.
  • 06:40They have some Greek letters.
  • 06:43You don't know what a log linear model is.
  • 06:45You don't care.
  • 06:46You skip it.
  • 06:50The result's the same thing. You skip it.
  • 06:52You know the tables are busy,
  • 06:53the figures are hard to make sense of,
  • 06:56so you're skipping most of it.
  • 06:57And you get to your discussion
  • 06:59and read parts of it because
  • 07:01it's in English, not in Greek.
  • 07:03But in some ways it's not the
  • 07:05right thing because shouldn't
  • 07:07you be making your own decision?
  • 07:09And shouldn't you be reading your own paper?
  • 07:12So that's how we usually read papers.
  • 07:14But this is a key thing related to today.
  • 07:18Oh, and the disclosures, you know,
  • 07:20why should I care about disclosures?
  • 07:22But this is what we can do and usually do.
  • 07:25And that's what the abstract is
  • 07:27the most powerful part of a paper.
  • 07:29It's overwhelmingly the only
  • 07:31part that is read.
  • 07:33It's a part in which you can
  • 07:35connect with your audience.
  • 07:37And even though it is absolutely critical,
  • 07:41all too commonly we just leave
  • 07:43it as the very last thing to do.
  • 07:45It's an afterthought and we
  • 07:47don't really pay the attention
  • 07:49that it that it deserved.
  • 07:54So let's get into what
  • 07:56is it that can help us?
  • 07:59So the first thing is that whatever
  • 08:01else you do, don't leave your
  • 08:02abstract as as an afterthought.
  • 08:04Don't leave it to the end.
  • 08:06The corollary of this is
  • 08:09get to your abstract first,
  • 08:12and even as you're moving along,
  • 08:15and if you have a scientific idea,
  • 08:16try to think of what this
  • 08:18abstract would be like.
  • 08:19It doesn't have to be all 250 words,
  • 08:21it can just be a couple of lines that
  • 08:25start putting shape into your paper.
  • 08:28So why should you bother?
  • 08:30Well, these are some of the
  • 08:31functions that an abstract does.
  • 08:32It persuades someone to read your paper.
  • 08:36We're going to have another
  • 08:38Yes session in January.
  • 08:39Looking at posters and a poster
  • 08:41really is a glorified abstract,
  • 08:43and they serve the same function.
  • 08:46You want to persuade someone to connect,
  • 08:49to engage scientifically
  • 08:51with you in an abstract.
  • 08:53You also want to cover the
  • 08:54high points of your study.
  • 08:55You don't want to be an
  • 08:57encyclopedia and cover everything.
  • 08:58You want your abstract to help you be
  • 09:01findable in computerized databases.
  • 09:06At a more cognitive level,
  • 09:10an abstract really helps you
  • 09:12clarify your own thinking,
  • 09:13because if you can't abstract it,
  • 09:16you really can't write it.
  • 09:18It goes back to Pascal.
  • 09:19If you think that
  • 09:22that you can write a big paper
  • 09:25without being able to summarize
  • 09:26that there's something wrong.
  • 09:27So the the tightness of it is very,
  • 09:29very important.
  • 09:30And the last point that often gets
  • 09:32forgotten is that you become a
  • 09:33better critic of your own work,
  • 09:35but you also become a better
  • 09:38reviewer of others work.
  • 09:40Many of us don't love to review,
  • 09:42but it's part of belonging to
  • 09:45a scientific community where
  • 09:47you do review and especially
  • 09:49after you have been published,
  • 09:51enjoy the the toils and share the toils,
  • 09:56right.
  • 09:57So you you have to give back in in
  • 10:00academia and to do so as a better
  • 10:03reviewer will really be helpful and help you.
  • 10:06If you're interested in becoming
  • 10:08part of a journal,
  • 10:09if you want to be part of
  • 10:11a program committee,
  • 10:11if you want to become more
  • 10:13actively involved in your society,
  • 10:14etcetera,
  • 10:15etcetera,
  • 10:19who cares? Well, there's this dude.
  • 10:23Who cares? So this is most of
  • 10:26us coming with our pencil head
  • 10:28as supplicants to an editor.
  • 10:30Please take my paper.
  • 10:32And if you haven't been rejected by
  • 10:34a journal, it only means one thing.
  • 10:36It means that you haven't been
  • 10:38submitting enough, right?
  • 10:41Rejection is part of the game,
  • 10:43but over time, you want the signal
  • 10:45to noise ratio to get better.
  • 10:46You want to be approved,
  • 10:48accepted more and more,
  • 10:50and an abstract is going to help
  • 10:52you so that Mister Erase your Head
  • 10:53doesn't send you to the garbage bin.
  • 10:55Once again,
  • 10:56this point is absolutely critical.
  • 10:59I was an editor in chief for 10
  • 11:01years and the only thing that we
  • 11:04have editors read is abstracts.
  • 11:06It's only at a much later date stage
  • 11:09of the game that we start getting
  • 11:11really into the paper itself.
  • 11:13So people will spend months,
  • 11:15years in the beautiful discussion
  • 11:17and the guts of the results,
  • 11:19as he should, but once again,
  • 11:22leave the abstract as an afterthought and do
  • 11:25do themselves a big disservice in that way.
  • 11:28The other people who care a lot
  • 11:29about this are medical conferences.
  • 11:31Whatever your professional society,
  • 11:33wherever you go,
  • 11:35if you want to present,
  • 11:36if you want your work work to be shown,
  • 11:38you will need to write an
  • 11:39abstract and put it up there.
  • 11:41And the principles are exactly the same.
  • 11:43You want to touch someone.
  • 11:46You want to connect with someone
  • 11:48through those 250 words so that they
  • 11:50can see how important the work is.
  • 11:56OK, so let's move on to the second part,
  • 12:01the content and what I'm calling the
  • 12:03Anatomy of the Physiology of an Abstract.
  • 12:08So let's start with a title,
  • 12:10and I'll call this entitlement,
  • 12:13the mini lives of the title.
  • 12:14So I have an example here of a little
  • 12:17paper that I wrote that I will
  • 12:19share with you at the end of today
  • 12:21in which I struggle for a while.
  • 12:23While as to the title of it,
  • 12:26I initially thought he started with.
  • 12:31I initially thought that
  • 12:34Abstractification was a great title,
  • 12:37but of course that's not even
  • 12:38a word in the English language.
  • 12:40It's a little bit or a lot too cute,
  • 12:44and it really doesn't tell me anything.
  • 12:45So I like the word,
  • 12:47just like I like the play on entitlement.
  • 12:51But it didn't really give me enough,
  • 12:54so I continued polishing
  • 12:55it and thinking about it.
  • 12:57And then I came to this abstracted.
  • 12:59Otherwise no one is likely
  • 13:01to read or find your work.
  • 13:04So that's a little bit better.
  • 13:05It's still a little cute,
  • 13:08but at least it tells me
  • 13:09what the paper may be about.
  • 13:14The paper that I'm going
  • 13:15to show share with you.
  • 13:16This is the the title I settled on,
  • 13:18which is Abstract art.
  • 13:2012 tips to help you write
  • 13:22an effective abstract.
  • 13:24You can already get a sense that this
  • 13:25was not written for a scholarly journal,
  • 13:27it was more for some magazine type
  • 13:31publication, but it tells you what it was.
  • 13:34It's a little cute abstract art,
  • 13:36but not over the top cute.
  • 13:38And each of the the words
  • 13:39here is doing some word work,
  • 13:41telling you what happened.
  • 13:42Now, if I wanted to take this
  • 13:45article into an academic journal,
  • 13:47it would look perhaps something
  • 13:48a little bit like this.
  • 13:50Abstract quality predictors of
  • 13:52preliminary article rejection
  • 13:54in the scholarly journal, right.
  • 13:57So you see different levels of this
  • 14:01and at least the way my brain works,
  • 14:03I typically go through some iteration
  • 14:05of this couple of words, I Polish them,
  • 14:07I know more and more and more and
  • 14:09by the time I have a title,
  • 14:12one of the hardest pieces of
  • 14:14work has been done.
  • 14:15Because once I knew abstract R12 tips,
  • 14:17then that put A-frame on the
  • 14:19paper and it was easy from them.
  • 14:21Now you will notice that I
  • 14:24put the colon in green.
  • 14:27I highlighted that colon and I did that
  • 14:31on purpose because the colon is your friend.
  • 14:36Just remember that the colon is your friend.
  • 14:39A good title pretty much always
  • 14:42has two parts divided by a colon.
  • 14:45There is something that gives us
  • 14:47a hint of what this is about.
  • 14:49That's on the left,
  • 14:50and a whole bunch of specifiers on the right.
  • 14:53So let me give you an example.
  • 14:55Dana,
  • 14:55my dear friend,
  • 14:56is a specialist in sexually
  • 14:59transmitted diseases,
  • 15:00and let me just write a
  • 15:03hypothetical paper in that domain.
  • 15:04I know nothing about the topic,
  • 15:06but we might call it
  • 15:11chlamydia trachomatis in italics,
  • 15:15right colon a randomized cluster
  • 15:21controlled trial of community
  • 15:24based services in something.
  • 15:27So I already know that it's about this
  • 15:30particular bug called chlamydia on the left,
  • 15:33but on the right, I already have a sense
  • 15:34that it's a randomized controlled trial.
  • 15:36That's good, but it's not of a medication.
  • 15:38Maybe it's a some psychosocial intervention.
  • 15:41I'm intrigued.
  • 15:41I already want to go and do that there.
  • 15:44Dana, are you intrigued in reading my paper?
  • 15:48Yeah. See,
  • 15:48so that the colon is a is an interesting way.
  • 15:52And if you look at articles,
  • 15:53most of the times it's there on the right,
  • 15:56you can see things like a
  • 15:58randomized controlled trial,
  • 15:59a systematic review,
  • 16:01a case control study,
  • 16:03a qualitative qualitative report.
  • 16:06It tells you something You usually
  • 16:09don't want to start with that.
  • 16:10You don't want to start with a
  • 16:12cluster randomized controlled trial
  • 16:14because there's a million of those.
  • 16:16You want to start with chlamydia trachomatis,
  • 16:19because that already tells who
  • 16:20your readership is going to be.
  • 16:22So don't forget the lowly colon in the type.
  • 16:29Then we get to the real
  • 16:31guts of the abstract.
  • 16:32And here they are.
  • 16:33You know them well,
  • 16:35they're your friends,
  • 16:36objectives, methods,
  • 16:37results and conclusions.
  • 16:42And and we're going to be,
  • 16:45as you can imagine,
  • 16:46spending time talking about the methods
  • 16:48that has all of these things about design,
  • 16:50setting, participants, etcetera.
  • 16:51So this is what an abstract is.
  • 16:53You know that very well.
  • 16:55Now let's look at how that relates
  • 16:57to the Physiology of an abstract.
  • 16:59So the objective is what you set out to do.
  • 17:03The methods are the how and what,
  • 17:05what you actually did.
  • 17:08The results are the thing
  • 17:10you did that you found.
  • 17:11And the conclusions are a recap,
  • 17:14brief recap and no more.
  • 17:16We're going to get to that.
  • 17:17There's a great desire to
  • 17:21start really tapping on your
  • 17:22keyboard and put a whole lot
  • 17:24at the end of the conclusions.
  • 17:25But that's not necessarily not
  • 17:28necessary and usually not good.
  • 17:33Well, let's start with the objective.
  • 17:35It's better to have one
  • 17:37single objective than two.
  • 17:38Sometimes you can have two.
  • 17:40This is not a place yet to put
  • 17:42it in a hypothesis language.
  • 17:44It's an objective statement.
  • 17:49Avoid throat clearing.
  • 17:50That is such a common problem
  • 17:52that I saw as an editor that
  • 17:55people started with chlamydia.
  • 17:56Trachomatis is a venereal disease that
  • 17:58has been known to mankind forever.
  • 18:01It is treated with what, I don't know,
  • 18:03penicillin with antibiotics.
  • 18:04And it gets that I don't.
  • 18:06Everybody knows that you know,
  • 18:08so don't clear your throat in.
  • 18:11In my area of autism,
  • 18:14so many articles are autism is a
  • 18:17neurodevelopmental disorder first described
  • 18:18by Leo O'Connor in 1943 as like reject.
  • 18:22Enough, I know that.
  • 18:23So so lead with what you know with
  • 18:26what is new what what is that hook
  • 18:28and and think that you're writing
  • 18:30a haiku here you want to be very,
  • 18:32very brief,
  • 18:33but not so brief as to be obscure.
  • 18:36You need to be aware of who your target is.
  • 18:38So the example that I gave,
  • 18:40if I'm writing for about chlamydia
  • 18:42to specialists in the area is going
  • 18:45to be different than if I pitch it to
  • 18:48internal medicine folks who are not
  • 18:50sexually transmitted disease specialists.
  • 18:54OK, these three letters I have come
  • 18:57to love and I hope you you take
  • 18:59them with you and get to love them
  • 19:03because they are helpful not just
  • 19:05for an objective or an introduction,
  • 19:08but they're critically helpful in
  • 19:10writing a paper. The introduction,
  • 19:12the first part of a paper,
  • 19:14so that the PGH as a reminder is a problem.
  • 19:18So what is known and why it matters.
  • 19:24Chlamydia has X&Y consequences and
  • 19:26it responds to A&B antibiotics.
  • 19:31It has a significant toll on the population
  • 19:35measured by X&Y. That's a problem.
  • 19:40What's missing, However, we know that
  • 19:4340% of chlamydia does not respond and
  • 19:46we need novel treatments to do it.
  • 19:48So that's the gap, what is missing?
  • 19:51And then the hook what you're doing about it.
  • 19:54So approaches to treat chlamydia have
  • 19:57been largely based on novel antibiotics.
  • 20:00In addition, our work has expanded
  • 20:04non pharmacological interventions
  • 20:06such as community, blah blah blah.
  • 20:09So suddenly I'm interested because
  • 20:10it's not the the same old same
  • 20:13old so problem gap hook.
  • 20:15If you think about this,
  • 20:16whenever you write that first
  • 20:18few paragraphs in a paper,
  • 20:20it's very, very helpful.
  • 20:21Our brains are primed in this way because
  • 20:24it's a little bit of a scientific
  • 20:27story and and we are social animals,
  • 20:29we're storytelling animals.
  • 20:31So this is a way of following that.
  • 20:36Your research question should flow
  • 20:38very naturally out of this and in fact
  • 20:40the hook and the research question
  • 20:42can become a little bit of a blend.
  • 20:45This is what we did in this cluster
  • 20:47randomized community controls trial.
  • 20:50So PGH, problem gap, gap hook,
  • 20:54the 2nd and I think I'm only
  • 20:56going to give you 2 acronyms,
  • 20:58but this one should be known.
  • 21:01This is the the better known I think is PICO.
  • 21:04And this all of epidemiology can
  • 21:07be summarized really to PICO.
  • 21:10So the population,
  • 21:12the exposure or the intervention,
  • 21:15the comparison or control when applicable.
  • 21:18Sometimes there are no control.
  • 21:21Oops, the outcome.
  • 21:23And time so again and we didn't
  • 21:26we didn't rehearse this, Dana,
  • 21:28but I'm just going here so the population
  • 21:30is going to be you know 15 to 20 year old,
  • 21:34transitionally age youth
  • 21:35in the city of New Haven.
  • 21:38That might be our population and
  • 21:40the exposure is going to be those
  • 21:42who had sex without protection,
  • 21:45and the comparison will be those who
  • 21:51did not have it did have protection.
  • 21:54However, we want to define it to condom use.
  • 21:57For example, our outcome was positivity
  • 22:00under the serological tests, I guess.
  • 22:02And the time is that we did this
  • 22:05over the course of five months.
  • 22:07So those are the key elements.
  • 22:09And even if you just put
  • 22:10those words or those concepts,
  • 22:11it's already starting to take shape.
  • 22:13You don't need to write an abstract on
  • 22:15day one with full sentences and worry
  • 22:18about the beauty of your prose and the
  • 22:21elegance of your Times New Romance font.
  • 22:23Now you just need to put down the main ideas.
  • 22:26Sometimes we get stuck around those things,
  • 22:29so let's give an example. Again,
  • 22:31this is from my field in child psychiatry,
  • 22:33so children 8 to 12 years of age at
  • 22:37of parents with bipolar one disorder.
  • 22:39So these were children at risk, by the way.
  • 22:43Make things easy on your reader.
  • 22:45So if you're going to define
  • 22:46something that we don't know,
  • 22:47like at Risk or an acronym like
  • 22:50AR that we don't know, define it.
  • 22:53Name it the first time.
  • 22:55Otherwise,
  • 22:56we spend time just looking
  • 22:57and looking and looking.
  • 23:01The comparison here is of parents without
  • 23:05any psychiatric disorder, healthy controls
  • 23:12and what was done here is
  • 23:14diagnostic assessment with MRI.
  • 23:16The amygdala was measured,
  • 23:18the volumes of the amygdala and this was done
  • 23:21at baseline and then a two years follow up.
  • 23:23So these are just the elements.
  • 23:25This is not an abstract, but this,
  • 23:27this is the guts of an abstract by the way
  • 23:31I underlined were evaluated and were used.
  • 23:34If it didn't give you a little
  • 23:36bit of a conniption fit,
  • 23:38it gives me a conniption fit.
  • 23:39So hopefully it will to you as well.
  • 23:42I'm originally from Mexico,
  • 23:43so English is my second, second language.
  • 23:45So this was not something that came naturally
  • 23:48to me because we don't have it in Spanish.
  • 23:50But in English we have this thing
  • 23:53called the active tense and the pass,
  • 23:55the active voice and the passive voice.
  • 23:59And it's remarkable how many people
  • 24:02use the passive voice, you know,
  • 24:04were evaluated were used as
  • 24:06opposed to we evaluated, we used,
  • 24:08you know, there always needs to be
  • 24:11an agent when there's an action.
  • 24:13So who is it that did what?
  • 24:16So be mindful of your own use,
  • 24:19if any, of the passive voice.
  • 24:22And then we come to the result,
  • 24:24which is the,
  • 24:24you know,
  • 24:25the the main event that we've
  • 24:27been all waiting for.
  • 24:29And some of the tips there are
  • 24:32to be lean and numerical.
  • 24:35You avoid descriptions without numbers
  • 24:37which sound a little bit fluffy.
  • 24:40I'll give a couple of examples
  • 24:43and to be selective once again,
  • 24:45lead with your strong point
  • 24:48with your main questions.
  • 24:50Tie things as much as possible to
  • 24:52your objective to research question.
  • 24:54And then if you need to put a
  • 24:55negative finding, by all means,
  • 24:56by all means, But don't start there.
  • 24:59Start strong and then go to the excuses.
  • 25:02Sometimes folks wanting to be so
  • 25:06pristine in their scientific ethics,
  • 25:09they put everything to the point that
  • 25:11even in an abstract they bore us to tears.
  • 25:14And when you bore someone that's not good,
  • 25:16they won't read your paper.
  • 25:19Not every single result needs to be exciting.
  • 25:21Not everything needs to have a big P value.
  • 25:23Not everything needs to be a
  • 25:26positive finding.
  • 25:26But again,
  • 25:27you don't need to put everything down either.
  • 25:32This is an example of using a
  • 25:34lot of words and few numbers.
  • 25:37Again an example from my
  • 25:39specialty of child psychiatry.
  • 25:40But you see external factors
  • 25:43are more predictive.
  • 25:44Well, how much more predictive
  • 25:48specifically? Well, if you're so specific,
  • 25:50why aren't you being specific?
  • 25:52They're associated with higher how much
  • 25:54higher and higher than what? And lower.
  • 25:56So when you see a lot of these,
  • 25:58ER, words, resist that and start
  • 26:02thinking of adding numbers.
  • 26:05What kind of numbers?
  • 26:08Well, there's a range of numbers.
  • 26:09I would say that there's an
  • 26:11evolutionary ladder ladder to numbers.
  • 26:13The the worst ones are the ones
  • 26:14that I was just talking about.
  • 26:16The vague ones, the ones that try
  • 26:18to convey were numbers with words.
  • 26:20Smaller, larger, not terribly helpful.
  • 26:23You can use them once in a while,
  • 26:24but don't rely too much on them.
  • 26:27Sample size or ends and percentages
  • 26:30are OK P values are really good.
  • 26:32We all love them.
  • 26:33We all like them, but don't give by
  • 26:36and large don't give naked P values,
  • 26:38just the P value.
  • 26:40Try to include it with the
  • 26:41result of the statistical test,
  • 26:43or even better with a confidence interval.
  • 26:47The finding of the confidence
  • 26:49interval because that tells
  • 26:50the story of significance and
  • 26:52of just how much significance.
  • 26:54So choose whatever works
  • 26:56depending on on on your research.
  • 26:59But numbers are good to to a degree.
  • 27:03You don't want to pepper things
  • 27:06with too many numbers either.
  • 27:08So by the time that you
  • 27:11get to the conclusion,
  • 27:13the conclusion should really be
  • 27:14self-evident by the time that you read it,
  • 27:16that you read it in the in in my
  • 27:21attempt at being a chlamydiologist,
  • 27:23I would say that the conclusion might
  • 27:25be you know I don't know community
  • 27:30based treatments connected with
  • 27:32healthcare centers are have a positive
  • 27:37impact in the treatment of committee,
  • 27:39the prevention of chlamydia,
  • 27:40something like that.
  • 27:41It it's a statement,
  • 27:43this thing actually does something,
  • 27:46so it should be self-evident.
  • 27:49He distills the take home message
  • 27:51usually in one line, maybe 2 lines.
  • 27:53You don't need much more than that.
  • 27:55Numbers are not welcome here.
  • 27:56You know numbers aren't the result.
  • 27:58So if you're putting a number
  • 27:59in the conclusion take it away.
  • 28:01It doesn't belong there.
  • 28:04Please don't pontificate or editorialize.
  • 28:07It's a another big pool that we have.
  • 28:09Let me tell you what it all means.
  • 28:11Let me tell you why my negative
  • 28:12findings are not really negative.
  • 28:14No, this is not a place to do that.
  • 28:17And do not surprise.
  • 28:19Oh, and by the way, everybody got pregnant.
  • 28:21No, don't, no, don't do that.
  • 28:23OK? Avoid truisms.
  • 28:27Another beloved, terrible thing to do.
  • 28:30The findings indicate that cultural
  • 28:32factors must be taking into account.
  • 28:35Well, we we know that that that
  • 28:37doesn't really add anything.
  • 28:38It's it's a little bit of pablum.
  • 28:41Helping adolescents to deal with safe
  • 28:44social relations is important, right?
  • 28:47And then my unfavorite of all is this one.
  • 28:51Further research is needed,
  • 28:52but we know that that's what we're
  • 28:54doing this It doesn't add anything.
  • 28:56And you just lost four precious words there,
  • 28:59so don't add obvious truisms.
  • 29:04So I've I've been telling you like
  • 29:05a schoolmarm, what you shouldn't do.
  • 29:07But let me tell you some things
  • 29:09that you might want to do.
  • 29:11You should really dare to be understated.
  • 29:16You take a stand to say what you have
  • 29:19found because you worked hard for it.
  • 29:21So you know, oops, don't be vague about it.
  • 29:25Go for it and to.
  • 29:27Less is more when it comes to
  • 29:29the conclusion, so don't bother.
  • 29:31We're reading all of this,
  • 29:33blah blah blah about a very
  • 29:35large study study on obsessive
  • 29:36compulsive disorder done in kids.
  • 29:39I put it here to show you that there's,
  • 29:41you know, many numbers, many details.
  • 29:43It's one of these JAMA articles with
  • 29:46lots and lots of details. But whoops.
  • 29:48But what is really important here?
  • 29:50Is this the conclusion?
  • 29:51So even if you don't are not a child
  • 29:54psychiatrist and don't know all the numbers,
  • 29:57we can all understand the children and
  • 29:59adolescents with Obsessive Compulsive
  • 30:01disorder should begin treatment with a
  • 30:04combination of cognitive behavioral therapy
  • 30:06plus an SSRI like Prozac or with CBT alone.
  • 30:09It's it's very clear, right?
  • 30:11It it's taking a stand,
  • 30:13it's not opining,
  • 30:15It's very clean because,
  • 30:17you know,
  • 30:18these authors have earned it after
  • 30:19doing all of their hard work.
  • 30:24I mentioned that I do qualitative work,
  • 30:27so wanted to show you just a little bit
  • 30:29of a difference with a qualitative study.
  • 30:32This is a study that we published last year
  • 30:34and look at that colon, Look at that colon.
  • 30:37So we have perceptions of racism in a
  • 30:40children's psychiatric inpatient unit.
  • 30:42That's the what and a qualitative study
  • 30:44of entrenching and uprooting factors.
  • 30:47This is the the how or the detail.
  • 30:50So what I want to show you is that
  • 30:53in the abstract, just for a second,
  • 30:56it's a qualitative study.
  • 30:56So we're not going to have P values and
  • 30:59numbers and all the things that I told you,
  • 31:02but some simple similar principles
  • 31:04apply of being orderly, of enumerating,
  • 31:07of making it easy on the reader
  • 31:10even on as complex a paper.
  • 31:13So this is what we did.
  • 31:14We identified 2 processes,
  • 31:16entrenching factors that sustain or increase
  • 31:20racism and they come in these three flavors,
  • 31:23Predisposing factors,
  • 31:25precipitating factors and perpetuating.
  • 31:28And the second one,
  • 31:30uprooting factors that rectify or reduce
  • 31:33racism so they prevent they punctuate
  • 31:37as something is happening in real time
  • 31:39or they prohibit and you see that.
  • 31:42In this case we played with the the letter P,
  • 31:46the alliteration.
  • 31:46So we organized each of the elements
  • 31:50into a 6P model along the temporal
  • 31:53sequence around Sentinel racist events.
  • 31:56And for each one,
  • 31:57we looked at contributing factors,
  • 31:58emotional reactions,
  • 31:59behavioral responses.
  • 32:00So this is a very different kind
  • 32:02of an abstract, right?
  • 32:03There aren't the number findings,
  • 32:05there aren't the parentheses,
  • 32:06there aren't the P values.
  • 32:08But it's still very clearly organized
  • 32:11and it flows from the interviews and
  • 32:15the the thematic analysis and what.
  • 32:18So just wanted to throw in
  • 32:21a word about qualitative.
  • 32:22So whatever else you do you remember.
  • 32:25I started with that.
  • 32:26So let me finish with that.
  • 32:28Whatever else you do,
  • 32:29do not leave your abstract
  • 32:30as an afterthought.
  • 32:34In fact, get to your abstract last.
  • 32:37This is exactly the opposite of what I
  • 32:39said in the beginning, but both are true.
  • 32:42You want to get to your
  • 32:44abstract at the very beginning,
  • 32:46even before you really start writing.
  • 32:49And you want to be polishing it as you are
  • 32:52writing your paper, your presentation,
  • 32:54your PowerPoint, whatever it is.
  • 32:56And the day before presenting your paper,
  • 32:58your PowerPoint,
  • 32:59or the day before submitting,
  • 33:00you still want to be polishing
  • 33:02it so that it is exactly right,
  • 33:04so that it is exactly right.
  • 33:06Most journals, most venues,
  • 33:09look for abstracts of about 250 words,
  • 33:13so it's not a lot of words.
  • 33:15But again Pascal,
  • 33:16you know writing brief is
  • 33:18much harder than writing long.
  • 33:21I'm going to finish with and
  • 33:23and I would love it, love it,
  • 33:25love it if people had questions
  • 33:26we'll have time.
  • 33:27I'm going to add with 12 tips
  • 33:30or summary points most of which
  • 33:32I think we have covered.
  • 33:35So whatever else you do start with
  • 33:38your abstract what I just mentioned
  • 33:40respect the abstract's demarcations.
  • 33:42So in Rad you may be familiar.
  • 33:46This is the introduction,
  • 33:48methods, results and discussion.
  • 33:50So these are the typical elements
  • 33:53of of an article.
  • 33:55And what I mean by the demarcations
  • 33:58is you don't want one section
  • 34:00bleeding into the next.
  • 34:02You don't want numbers in the
  • 34:04discussion I mentioned that.
  • 34:05But you don't want methods seeping
  • 34:07into the results or methods into you.
  • 34:10You want to keep each one very clear
  • 34:17title. I gave you some pointers,
  • 34:19hopefully helpful.
  • 34:20This is often overlooked
  • 34:22and yet is really core.
  • 34:24Really, really core.
  • 34:27In fact, in a poster the abstract
  • 34:29may be the only thing that is
  • 34:31seen and and certainly when
  • 34:33you're looking at the literature,
  • 34:34the title can open the doors or not.
  • 34:36So spending time with the
  • 34:38title is really important.
  • 34:41An abstract is not a summarized article.
  • 34:43So hopefully I've made my point that
  • 34:45you don't want to have your paper all
  • 34:48beautifully written and then try to distill
  • 34:51it or to cannibalize it into 250 words.
  • 34:56You you lost an opportunity there because
  • 34:59an article is an expanded abstract.
  • 35:02If you start with those 250 words
  • 35:04with a solid bone structure,
  • 35:06then you're going to be able
  • 35:08to build a rich paper.
  • 35:09It's a small but really important
  • 35:12difference in my, in my view,
  • 35:17follow the basic principles of epidemiology
  • 35:19that are the pico that we talked about.
  • 35:21It's almost colored by number and
  • 35:24numbers and literally that's what I did,
  • 35:26colored by numbers.
  • 35:27If you can think of that,
  • 35:29did you hit on everything?
  • 35:30You're going to be in
  • 35:33really much better shape.
  • 35:34Include numbers when it's
  • 35:36not a qualitative study,
  • 35:37although there's even some
  • 35:39numbers there in the right dose.
  • 35:40You know, don't overdo it.
  • 35:42Don't shove numbers down our throat.
  • 35:45Just the key.
  • 35:47Take home numerical messages.
  • 35:51Shut the fluff.
  • 35:52Every every word counts.
  • 35:54You only have 250,
  • 35:56so words must do work.
  • 35:58Use vigorous verbs.
  • 36:00Forget about adjectives.
  • 36:02Forget, forget.
  • 36:03Forget about adverbs
  • 36:07and put muscular words in there.
  • 36:12Be understated.
  • 36:13A good abstract speaks for itself.
  • 36:15It doesn't need any fancy
  • 36:18words to to do its job.
  • 36:22Do not editorialize.
  • 36:23This is not a New York Times editorial.
  • 36:26You need to be very direct,
  • 36:31very objective,
  • 36:33and not tell everyone
  • 36:35just how smart you are,
  • 36:37even though you know we
  • 36:39all have that desire
  • 36:43typos. A single typo can
  • 36:46just shoot your ship down.
  • 36:49So please, please, please, you know,
  • 36:51make sure to look at typos.
  • 36:55There are now several things beyond typos.
  • 36:59So for example those of you
  • 37:01who have not tried Grammarly or
  • 37:04not familiar with Grammarly,
  • 37:06I highly recommended the Grammarly Free
  • 37:09version will look at all your typos.
  • 37:12It's like a word on steroids.
  • 37:15It will find grammar and all those
  • 37:17little things, so that's good.
  • 37:20But Grammarly, the one that you pay for,
  • 37:23not expensive at all.
  • 37:25That one also has a tool for, yeah,
  • 37:28plagiarism. And you say me, plagiarism.
  • 37:31Who is he? I think he's talking to?
  • 37:35But it's surprising that when the
  • 37:37number of references that we use
  • 37:39and that we cite things like the
  • 37:41methods can be very difficult to
  • 37:43write completely cleanly out of,
  • 37:45you know,
  • 37:46So there's a certain amount of plagiarism,
  • 37:48auto plagiarism,
  • 37:49that happens in the best of times,
  • 37:51and it's good to see it in Grammarly
  • 37:53to show it to you.
  • 37:54And with some small changes you can
  • 37:57get rid of that and prevent the,
  • 37:59you know,
  • 38:00the horribleness of being said
  • 38:02that you are plagiarizing.
  • 38:06And as I said, whatever else you do,
  • 38:08finish with your abstract.
  • 38:10I'm going to ask Linda,
  • 38:11if you don't mind.
  • 38:12Linda, these 12 tips are included
  • 38:16and elaborated in this short
  • 38:18little paper that I had mentioned,
  • 38:19the one with that title
  • 38:24and you know there you have
  • 38:25it if it is if it is helpful.
  • 38:29I think that with that we
  • 38:33can 01 more business thing.
  • 38:35The business thing is that it would be
  • 38:37wonderful is as we open it up for comments,
  • 38:40if you could scan that code or Linda
  • 38:43will also put the the the code.
  • 38:45You could tell us you know
  • 38:47your thoughts about this talk.
  • 38:49It's the first time that we do
  • 38:51it and we wanna be helpful.
  • 38:53So I think that I will pass it to Dana now.
  • 38:58Is that how it goes, Dana?
  • 39:00Sure. Let's give them a little count.
  • 39:03The clock is counting down.
  • 39:04So we'll we'll I'll be quiet
  • 39:08just for a few seconds to let
  • 39:10people and myself rate you.
  • 39:37Thank you. We really do appreciate
  • 39:39you letting us know what's useful
  • 39:41to you or not useful to you as
  • 39:43we expand these sessions to be
  • 39:46more relevant to more faculty.
  • 39:47So what What questions does anybody
  • 39:50have or comments for Doctor
  • 39:52Martin about abstract writing?
  • 40:07I'll just start by saying I think
  • 40:10your comment about a lot of
  • 40:13things from from my standpoint of
  • 40:15when we do educator development,
  • 40:18I find that faculty were
  • 40:19learning how to teach better,
  • 40:21can learn a lot by observing teaching.
  • 40:23By using kind of some best tips
  • 40:25and practices in a rubric to
  • 40:27watch others because it makes you,
  • 40:29your muscle memory of the optimal
  • 40:31kind of best effective behaviors be
  • 40:33so reinforced when you're doing that.
  • 40:35So your corollary for for you
  • 40:37to be thinking about this when
  • 40:40you're reviewing abstracts,
  • 40:42I think will not only make you feel like it,
  • 40:44it's it's nice to guide your to
  • 40:46be a more effective reviewer,
  • 40:47but it'll strengthen your work as well.
  • 40:49So I I really appreciate that point.
  • 40:53I don't know if you can see the
  • 40:56chat Andres necessarily so I'm just
  • 40:58going to read the people could
  • 41:00also please feel free to raise
  • 41:01your hand or just go off mic.
  • 41:03But one person said I am currently
  • 41:06first time guest editing a journal
  • 41:09and this was right sized.
  • 41:12So very much appreciated Diane.
  • 41:15And then there's a question
  • 41:17about any tips for English not
  • 41:20as first language authors.
  • 41:23Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
  • 41:24Yeah. So 2 two things.
  • 41:26And let let me maybe address both.
  • 41:27So, Diane, that's terrific.
  • 41:29I don't, I don't see you,
  • 41:31but I know you're there somewhere.
  • 41:34Yes. As a guest editor you're likely
  • 41:37going to be seeing a lot of abstracts
  • 41:40and your job in being selective
  • 41:44about not accepting everything and
  • 41:46not your rejecting everything and
  • 41:55the the the, the,
  • 41:56the T tool kit T as in Tom the Kathy.
  • 42:00Kathy Deangelis was the Editor in
  • 42:02Chief of JAMA and we we're good
  • 42:04friends and she gave me this tool
  • 42:06tip that might be helpful to you.
  • 42:08She said that as an editor
  • 42:09you need the following TS.
  • 42:10Let me see if I can remember them all.
  • 42:13You need to be tough minded.
  • 42:16You need to be thin, thick skinned.
  • 42:20You need to be tender hearted
  • 42:23and you got to be tenacious.
  • 42:26And you know that served me well
  • 42:29because you're going to get you know,
  • 42:31every time that someone,
  • 42:32every time that anyone of us submits
  • 42:34something, we're giving our, you know,
  • 42:36our little heart here and please,
  • 42:37please take good care of it.
  • 42:39And rejection can be, can be hard.
  • 42:42And being in the other end of the spectrum
  • 42:45being the one rejecting can also be hard.
  • 42:49But it's a great thing that you're an editor,
  • 42:51so welcome.
  • 42:52And Angie is asking about tips for English,
  • 42:56not as a first language.
  • 42:58Yeah.
  • 43:01Yeah, So a couple of things.
  • 43:05Probably the best thing is having
  • 43:07and and we have it easy here, Angie,
  • 43:09you and I I know Angie in Full disclosure
  • 43:14and English is not our first language,
  • 43:17although we speak it reasonably well.
  • 43:20But I would say that for anyone who is at
  • 43:22whatever level of proficiency of English,
  • 43:24if it's not their first language,
  • 43:26having a reader who will be
  • 43:32again tenderhearted but tough
  • 43:33minded in some way is very good.
  • 43:36So whether that is a friend,
  • 43:38a colleague, a family member,
  • 43:40family members or loved ones can
  • 43:43actually be interesting in that.
  • 43:45Can they understand what it
  • 43:46is that you're saying?
  • 43:48You know they may not understand
  • 43:49the log linear model.
  • 43:50You know, whatever, whatever,
  • 43:51Monte Carlo, whatever.
  • 43:52But can they understand the English of it?
  • 43:55And. And I think that that's one.
  • 43:56So.
  • 43:57So having readers who are friendly and
  • 43:58who are going to be honest with you is 1.
  • 44:01The second one is Grammarly,
  • 44:02which is very, very good.
  • 44:04I'm still trying to learn things
  • 44:05in English that I didn't know,
  • 44:07like does the comma go inside
  • 44:09of the quotation or outside.
  • 44:11And when I mean there are so many strange
  • 44:13things about the beautiful English language.
  • 44:16And Grammarly, I would say,
  • 44:17is most of the time really on the money.
  • 44:21It's free, except for the
  • 44:24plagiarism stuff that I mentioned.
  • 44:26And I would say that for authors,
  • 44:28something that you will see very
  • 44:30often mentioned is these polishing
  • 44:32services that you send your manuscript
  • 44:34and they Polish and make it pretty.
  • 44:37In my experience,
  • 44:38that's really expensive and
  • 44:40they don't Polish so pretty,
  • 44:42but you know,
  • 44:43it's there.
  • 44:47I don't know.
  • 44:48I I think that even things like,
  • 44:51you know, I'm not endorsing this,
  • 44:53but ChatGPT, which is in my
  • 44:56mind after yesterday, you know,
  • 44:58it can help Polish things, you know,
  • 45:00take this and make it prettier.
  • 45:03I haven't used it myself,
  • 45:04but I wouldn't be surprised.
  • 45:05You know you take like a beautiful
  • 45:07abstract in your field and then
  • 45:10your abstract that you're happy
  • 45:11with and you go to ChatGPT and say
  • 45:14take mine and do it in this form.
  • 45:17It would be an interesting experiment.
  • 45:18I think that it would improve it.
  • 45:20Obviously you would still
  • 45:21need to to check it closely.
  • 45:26And my last point, Angie is a a
  • 45:29website that I've come to love
  • 45:31and use a lot called Deep Gram.
  • 45:36Although Deep Gram is more for
  • 45:40transcription than for writing,
  • 45:42which is what we're doing.
  • 45:43But Deep Gram can't
  • 45:49capture text, capture voice into
  • 45:51text in any number of languages.
  • 45:53I don't know like 30 languages.
  • 45:54And it's essentially free because
  • 45:57most of these things are are very.
  • 46:00Yeah, it's called deep where
  • 46:03I am and you don't. Oops.
  • 46:06No, that's misspelled. I'm sorry,
  • 46:10Deep cramp. So as I oh, there it is.
  • 46:14Yeah. Dana, as I mentioned,
  • 46:15I do a lot of qualitative studies
  • 46:17and you can put like long,
  • 46:18long you know multiple hour long
  • 46:21interviews and within less than a
  • 46:24minute it transcribes it beautifully.
  • 46:27So I think that we're,
  • 46:28we're all learning about these tools.
  • 46:31So those would be some of my thoughts.
  • 46:32Thank you for, for that question.
  • 46:37Another quick question. Yeah. So
  • 46:41in deep Gram, if you're
  • 46:44analyzing qualitatively, can
  • 46:50HIPAA
  • 46:52that sort of language. OK,
  • 46:54not HIPAA compliant. OK. That's OK.
  • 46:56Yeah. Not HIPAA compliant.
  • 46:59OK, sounds good.
  • 46:59Just wanted to make sure. OK,
  • 47:01thank you. I don't, I don't know
  • 47:02that the HIPAA police is going
  • 47:03to come and find you but better
  • 47:05not mess with the HIPAA police.
  • 47:07Yeah. No, especially if you're
  • 47:10if you're you know dealing with
  • 47:12patients and and their. Yeah.
  • 47:14OK, sounds good. Thank you.
  • 47:19Any other questions or
  • 47:22experiences people want to share?
  • 47:30I know this is like such a common
  • 47:32activity for so many on the call,
  • 47:34whether they're residents,
  • 47:35students or through the faculty.
  • 47:38So I really learned a lot, Andreas.
  • 47:40I'm looking, I'm going to look,
  • 47:42go look back at my pending
  • 47:45abstracts and this will dovetail
  • 47:47nicely to your next session.
  • 47:49Do you have the slide about
  • 47:50the next sessions, Andreas,
  • 47:54that will build build on this?
  • 47:57Yeah, no, quite literally the
  • 47:59the poster in some way really is
  • 48:03just a glorified abstract. So
  • 48:05we have first Friday of the next year a
  • 48:10session on improving written feedback.
  • 48:11We already had verbal feedback in the fall,
  • 48:14and then Andreas's next session for
  • 48:17writing will be the week after that.
  • 48:21And we again, we have programming that'll
  • 48:25run through through April at this point.
  • 48:29We got show you 3 * 3 at a time.
  • 48:31I see Donna has her hand up as well.
  • 48:34Yeah. And Donna, just one quick second
  • 48:36just to piggyback on what you said,
  • 48:38Dana, that the reason we really are
  • 48:41putting pressure on you to fill your
  • 48:43evaluations is that this is the first
  • 48:45time that we do this cycle of yes.
  • 48:47So things that you think could be really
  • 48:49good or have not been good or you know,
  • 48:51we really want your feedback. But Donna,
  • 48:55sorry I missed the first part.
  • 48:56I was seeing patients this morning.
  • 48:58Just, you know,
  • 48:59some hints that I've found helpful.
  • 49:02If you're submitting
  • 49:03abstracts to an organization,
  • 49:05often times they tell you or they
  • 49:08should tell you the rubric by
  • 49:10which they're grading abstracts.
  • 49:13And I find that
  • 49:14really helpful to know that in advance.
  • 49:17So I know how to structure based
  • 49:20on what they're looking for.
  • 49:23That's a great point, great point.
  • 49:30Thank you. Well,
  • 49:33thanks to everyone for joining.
  • 49:35We really, really appreciate you
  • 49:37Andreas and everyone's participation.
  • 49:40Hope you feel like this was
  • 49:43useful and we'll hear from you if
  • 49:45you did or you didn't hopefully
  • 49:46and we'll see you next time.
  • 49:49Happy holidays and thanks for
  • 49:51joining us guys. Bye bye.
  • 49:53Happy Holidays, Happy Holidays.