Yale Symposium on Holocaust and Genocide: Panel

Transcript

• 00:07So for the final portion of the program,
• 00:09we're going to have a discussion,
• 00:11a panel discussion of the rise
• 00:14of anti-Semitism nationally and
• 00:16internationally and and locally as well.
• 00:19And the panel, you know,
• 00:20the three folks on the right,
• 00:21I want to introduce the gentleman
• 00:23to my immediate right who's
• 00:25joining the panel at my request.
• 00:27This is Yuri Cohen,
• 00:28who's the executive director of
• 00:30the Joseph Smith Joseph Slifka
• 00:32Center for Jewish Life at Yale.
• 00:34A bit about your he was appointed the
• 00:36Executive director of the SLIFKA.
• 00:37Center in 2018,
• 00:38and his appointment to that post
• 00:40follows A7 year tenure in the same
• 00:42role at Queens College Hill and
• 00:44the City University of New York.
• 00:46Prior to coming to Hillel,
• 00:47you let Yuri health position at the
• 00:49Solomon Schechter School of Manhattan,
• 00:51Hillel International and Perry
• 00:52Davis Associates with almost two
• 00:54decades experience in fundraising,
• 00:55community relations and leadership.
• 00:57Even in his new post,
• 00:59he continues to be involved with
• 01:01Jewish life at Queens College and
• 01:02Works to raise awareness of the need
• 01:04for thriving Jewish life to serve the
• 01:07Jewish students enrolled at City University.
• 01:09He holds a Masters in public
• 01:11administration from New York
• 01:12University and has been studying,
• 01:14practicing and teaching
• 01:15leadership for the past 25 years.
• 01:18He spent the last 17 years working
• 01:19with the Jewish community,
• 01:20and he comes to slifka with
• 01:23strong experience.
• 01:23Indeed, management and Community relations,
• 01:25financial management.
• 01:26Um, Yuri.
• 01:27I met a few years ago and I thought he
• 01:30would be a wonderful person to address.
• 01:33Not just anti-Semitism here at Yale,
• 01:36if that's if that's so moves you,
• 01:38but but that anti-Semitism writ large
• 01:40in the United States and beyond.
• 01:41I'm looking at contemporary Times Now.
• 01:43We've certainly seen enough of
• 01:46the mid 20th century for a bit.
• 01:49So I've invited each speaker to to say some,
• 01:52give us a few minutes of their
• 01:54thoughts on the subject,
• 01:55just from right here you guys can just
• 01:56so we can pass the microphone around.
• 01:58And then I want to invite you
• 02:00folks to submit questions via
• 02:01zoom or to raise your hand.
• 02:03We have a microphone that will
• 02:04be floating around the audience,
• 02:05but we're going to start please,
• 02:07with Yuri Cohen.
• 02:09Hi everyone, thank you so much for having me.
• 02:12Thank you to Doctor Mercurio for
• 02:14the for the the invitation can is
• 02:17this microphone working? No yes
• 02:20it working. No, I didn't think so.
• 02:26Yes. Is that better?
• 02:28Excellent. OK. Perfect. So.
• 02:32Not talking with you.
• 02:35Thanks to thanks to Mark for
• 02:38the invitation and and and to
• 02:40doctor Lindenthal for for making
• 02:43this making this possible,
• 02:44and to everyone for for being
• 02:46here and my fellow panelists.
• 02:51College campuses are the very
• 02:54best places in the world.
• 02:56I mean, I'm a little bit biased and I
• 02:58know many of us are the very best place
• 03:02in the world because students are here
• 03:05at just the very best time in their lives.
• 03:08It's about identity formation,
• 03:10it's about acquiring memory.
• 03:11That's essentially what students
• 03:13are doing in their classes and also,
• 03:16you know, in the, in the,
• 03:17in the social connections that
• 03:18they make in the community and.
• 03:19Um, connections that and experiences
• 03:21that they that they make.
• 03:23They're also activating their own agency.
• 03:26It's not about spitting back all the
• 03:27time what I was taught or what I was
• 03:29told by my parents or my teachers,
• 03:31but I'm actually starting to
• 03:33find my own voice.
• 03:34And the combination of those three things,
• 03:37in my opinion,
• 03:38makes the college campuses just
• 03:40the very the very best place to be.
• 03:42It's a challenging place also
• 03:45because there's kind of a of a of
• 03:48a magnifying lens that people all
• 03:50over use on the college campuses.
• 03:53What's happening there?
• 03:54What are the students doing?
• 03:55What are they thinking?
• 03:56What should we be trying to get them to say?
• 03:58What should we be trying to
• 04:00get them to think?
• 04:01How should we be indoctrinating them?
• 04:03How should we be training them?
• 04:06I hear very little about what
• 04:08can we be learning from them.
• 04:11And that,
• 04:12that really bothers me,
• 04:14that makes me worried as not only
• 04:16a Jewish community professional,
• 04:17but also somebody who's really
• 04:19invested in the future of the world,
• 04:21especially being at a place like here,
• 04:23like like Yale.
• 04:24There's a lot going on here that's gonna
• 04:27have a direct connection on the future.
• 04:29And the students who are on campus
• 04:32right now hold the key to all of
• 04:34the things that we hold dear,
• 04:36being relevant 20 years from now,
• 04:3730 years from now, 40 years from now.
• 04:39So it can't really, in my opinion.
• 04:42We really shouldn't be what can
• 04:43only what can we teach them?
• 04:45We also need to be learning from them.
• 04:47We have to be listening to them.
• 04:50We have to be.
• 04:52Validating that place that they are
• 04:54in so that they will feel like their
• 04:57voice matters. We don't do that.
• 04:59I I think we're failing miserably.
• 05:02Umm.
• 05:05Anti-Semitism is very complicated on
• 05:08college campuses and and I think that's
• 05:11for a couple of different reasons.
• 05:14I'll just say the following anecdote.
• 05:17I was really surprised.
• 05:18I came here in in 2018 and the and the
• 05:22the Tree of Life shooting in Pittsburgh
• 05:24was in October of 2018 and I was
• 05:27shocked that the students were shocked.
• 05:32They they could not understand
• 05:34what had just happened.
• 05:36They felt vulnerable.
• 05:37Perhaps for the first time,
• 05:39they felt like their whole world
• 05:41had kind of been turned upside down.
• 05:44Now I've been around a little bit
• 05:46longer and I'm not surprised.
• 05:48That Jews would be shot for going into
• 05:51a synagogue or for identifying as Jews.
• 05:53That that's unfortunately fairly commonplace.
• 05:56Not that we should, you know,
• 05:58let it go or or not fight against
• 05:59it or stand up against it.
• 06:01But it's not shocking.
• 06:02But the students felt shocked.
• 06:05And that tells a lot.
• 06:06That says a lot to me about
• 06:09where students are coming from,
• 06:11what is their experience,
• 06:12what are the associations with
• 06:14being Jewish that are relevant in
• 06:16their lives and in the lives of
• 06:19the institutions with which they.
• 06:20They are involved.
• 06:21There's a major change from a lot
• 06:24of the times that we've been talking
• 06:26about so far today in what it means to
• 06:28be Jewish to if you Fast forward to today,
• 06:31associations with Jews used to be about
• 06:35different, about an oppressed minority,
• 06:39about dirty, about small, about a threat.
• 06:45Today, it's much more about privilege.
• 06:49It's about power.
• 06:52It's about influence.
• 06:54It's about affluence.
• 06:56Those are very different associations.
• 06:58And so when a Jewish
• 07:00student walks into a room.
• 07:02They're,
• 07:02they're perceived very differently
• 07:04than they than they have been
• 07:07at at various other times,
• 07:09probably perhaps every other
• 07:11time in Jewish history.
• 07:13And so that experience is really important.
• 07:16We have to understand those associations
• 07:18and those experiences and really
• 07:20to in order to really understand
• 07:22what's happening on the campuses.
• 07:25As you know, as,
• 07:26as as everyone probably knows,
• 07:29anti-Semitism is a really challenging
• 07:31thing to navigate because you can
• 07:33get it from the political right,
• 07:35you can get it from the political left.
• 07:37I've heard it said that it's that
• 07:39anti-Semitism is the only form of
• 07:41hate and bias that comes pretty
• 07:43much equally from both sides.
• 07:45You have the you have the marchers
• 07:48in Charlottesville chanting.
• 07:49Jews will not replace us.
• 07:52And then you have the people who
• 07:54are who are saying that Jews do not
• 07:56have the right to be involved in
• 07:58progressive causes because of what's
• 08:00happening in Israel between the Israeli,
• 08:04Palestinian conflict.
• 08:06I'm not sure how you win that.
• 08:08Kind of getting it from both sides,
• 08:11but here we are.
• 08:13Jews have been have been dealing
• 08:15with anti-Semitism for a very,
• 08:17very long time.
• 08:18And and and we're still here and
• 08:22so we keep at it.
• 08:23Now there's one theme that came
• 08:26up both in in in David and and
• 08:29and Thorson's presentation that
• 08:30I thought was really important,
• 08:31it struck me right at the end
• 08:33before the panel which is.
• 08:35It's really easy to vilify,
• 08:37to basically say that someone is an anomaly,
• 08:39that Mangala was a, you know, was a was,
• 08:42you know, demonic or somehow crazy.
• 08:45So you don't have to deal with him,
• 08:48you can just say, oh, he's an exception.
• 08:51Um. I think that a lot of people are
• 08:54doing that about college students today.
• 08:57I think that there's a sense of we don't
• 09:00have to deal with what they are dealing with.
• 09:03We can just say that we're
• 09:05right and they're wrong,
• 09:06or we can try to teach them something else to
• 09:08replace the experience that they have had,
• 09:11but I want to caution us
• 09:13against that very strongly.
• 09:14It's really important to understand
• 09:16where the students are coming from,
• 09:18why it's complicated for them,
• 09:19why it's difficult for them,
• 09:21and really dig into what
• 09:23makes it complicated.
• 09:24I'll say two more things.
• 09:25And then and then, you know,
• 09:27move the microphone along.
• 09:31The first thing is Israel
• 09:35complicates things enormously.
• 09:37Anti Zionism and anti-Semitism are linked.
• 09:41They are not the same thing in my opinion.
• 09:43They are.
• 09:44They are linked.
• 09:46And I know that they're not,
• 09:47that they're not the same thing,
• 09:49because they are very highly identified,
• 09:52very strongly feeling Jews who are
• 09:54active in the Jewish community.
• 09:57At Yale right now,
• 09:58not not to mention elsewhere in the country
• 10:01who would consider themselves anti Zionists.
• 10:04And they're not doing it
• 10:05because they hate Jews,
• 10:06they're doing it because
• 10:08they're Jewish values,
• 10:09as they have learned them as they have.
• 10:13Uh,
• 10:13started to live them out in their own way.
• 10:16Raises important questions
• 10:18about what's going on.
• 10:20I think those are important questions.
• 10:23It does not take away from the fact that Jews
• 10:28have been persecuted for thousands of years.
• 10:31And that the State of Israel in,
• 10:34you know,
• 10:35it can,
• 10:35can be thought of as a major blessing
• 10:39because of what is it has accomplished
• 10:41not only for the Jewish community
• 10:43but for the world more broadly.
• 10:45The United States has
• 10:46its share of challenges.
• 10:47the United States government
• 10:49has its share of challenges,
• 10:51and the criticism of it is warranted.
• 10:56And appropriate and encouraged
• 11:01and and yet at the same time there
• 11:04are constant calls for the for the
• 11:06destruction of the State of Israel.
• 11:08And I hear very few if any calls for
• 11:11the destruction of of the United
• 11:13States of America because of even the
• 11:16murder of of Tyree Nichols in in Memphis.
• 11:19So this is really complicated because
• 11:22our values dictate different things.
• 11:25We've got to figure out how we
• 11:28figure out how we distinguish.
• 11:30The people who are trying to live
• 11:32out Jewish values and the way
• 11:34we've taught them to do it in a
• 11:35way that resonates with them,
• 11:37with them and the people who are
• 11:41who are using Israel as a cudgel.
• 11:44For the destruction and dismantling
• 11:46of the Jew,
• 11:47of the of the vibrant Jewish people.
• 11:49That's point number one.
• 11:50It's really important to
• 11:52distinguish those two things.
• 11:53The second is, is about universities.
• 11:57There's a lot of of energy in in, in,
• 12:01in the world that I that I live in
• 12:03around being careful about free speech,
• 12:05trying to get universities you
• 12:07know to to strike the right balance
• 12:10between you know decrying hate
• 12:12speech and lifting up free speech,
• 12:14academic freedom.
• 12:15All of these things,
• 12:17those are really important discussions
• 12:18to to be had and balances to be struck.
• 12:21There's no, there's no question about that.
• 12:23I'm a really practical person.
• 12:26I know that if I'm trying to protect
• 12:28the the interests of Jewish students
• 12:30and the Jewish community at Yale,
• 12:32Free Speech, hate speech,
• 12:33I'm never going to win those battles
• 12:36because the universities have all kinds
• 12:38of pressures and all kinds of things.
• 12:40And that it's a it's it's not.
• 12:42It's not worth my time to to
• 12:45push in that in that direction.
• 12:46I'm much more focused on on working
• 12:50with students to be discerning.
• 12:52Let them raise up their voices in
• 12:55ways that reflect their values and
• 12:58that push universities to be smarter.
• 13:00I I find here at Yale,
• 13:02the vast majority of the administrators
• 13:04that I work with don't know
• 13:06anything about anti-Semitism.
• 13:07They don't really know anything about Jews.
• 13:09They think of Jews as as a,
• 13:10as, as another religion,
• 13:11as alongside the Christians and the
• 13:13Muslims and and and everybody else,
• 13:15which is partially true,
• 13:16but only describes this much
• 13:18of what it means to be Jewish.
• 13:20There's a massive lack of understanding.
• 13:23About about what you would who Jews are,
• 13:25how how we show up,
• 13:27and the education of the university
• 13:30to make Jews,
• 13:31to make sure that the university treats
• 13:34Jews the way they treat everyone else.
• 13:36Umm.
• 13:37Is is one of the most important
• 13:39things that we can do.
• 13:40So it's about educating the university.
• 13:42It's about lifting up students,
• 13:44helping them to make careful decisions.
• 13:46You know, one of the things that
• 13:48Jews are best known for.
• 13:49And with this all clothes is
• 13:50making distinctions.
• 13:51Have deal been Kodesh? Lacole.
• 13:53We're supposed to distinguish
• 13:55between the mundane and the holy?
• 13:57The clean and the unclean,
• 13:59the right and the wrong.
• 14:00It's really hard.
• 14:02It's incredibly complicated.
• 14:04And I think we we,
• 14:05if we're doing our jobs well,
• 14:07we can and should jump into
• 14:09that with the students,
• 14:10help them become better,
• 14:11discern ours, engage with them,
• 14:13learn from them,
• 14:14share with them,
• 14:15and be their partners in
• 14:16building the best world we can.
• 14:19Thank you. Thank you very much.
• 14:22And what I'd like to do first is give
• 14:24each of these folks a chance to speak.
• 14:25And I want at some point,
• 14:26I want someone from AB to come up
• 14:27here and do something with me here.
• 14:29We've already got 28 questions and we
• 14:30already have one comment from the audience.
• 14:32And so I will,
• 14:34we'll hear from the next three.
• 14:36With that in mind,
• 14:37we've got a little bit more time.
• 14:38We've got three more
• 14:39panelists with brief remarks.
• 14:40And then I want to give a chance
• 14:42certainly to start out with your
• 14:43question and then and then try
• 14:44and get to some of these online.
• 14:46And Calvin is here, someone else.
• 14:47Just one thing I need to do with that.
• 14:49Ruth, please.
• 14:50Thank you for this opportunity.
• 14:53I'm not a scholar of anti-Semitism,
• 14:55but it does have an impact
• 14:58in basically everything I do.
• 15:01And I would want to start
• 15:02by raising a question,
• 15:03perhaps a bit as devil's Advocate, but.
• 15:06How novel is this supposed
• 15:09rising new anti-Semitism?
• 15:11Or has it actually been there all along,
• 15:14but only recently,
• 15:15in the last few years,
• 15:18perhaps since 2016?
• 15:22Given like been given a lot more
• 15:25license to be more open there,
• 15:28there's been a lot written about
• 15:30how when Trump became president.
• 15:33You know there were lots of dog
• 15:35whistles and and things that about
• 15:38how racism became legitimate
• 15:40and legitimatized in a sense.
• 15:42And I I wonder if you know
• 15:46similar processes have informed
• 15:47what we see as Oh my goodness,
• 15:50a rise of anti-Semitism.
• 15:51So that's just a question, a thought piece.
• 15:55And as you already just mentioned,
• 15:57a lot of my notes that I took really
• 16:00echo with some things that you said
• 16:03about the conflation of anti-Semitism
• 16:05and anti Israel or is is Israel.
• 16:09Thinking anti Zionism?
• 16:12And one of the things this does is to
• 16:14justify anti-Semitism by looking at Israeli,
• 16:17Israeli governments
• 16:19treatment of Palestinians.
• 16:22And especially in places with few or no Jews,
• 16:27the very word,
• 16:28the term can be a curse word.
• 16:31I've heard this many times.
• 16:34It also, in some places with fewer no Jews,
• 16:38refers to some kind of historical exotic
• 16:42figure replete with stereotypes and,
• 16:46and it seems natural then to equate
• 16:50Jewishness with Israel Ness and,
• 16:52you know, with all the attendant problems.
• 16:57And also this kind of conflation treats Jews.
• 17:02As a monolith, when an actual fact,
• 17:04there's a wide range of opinions about Israel
• 17:07within the Jewish population in the US.
• 17:10On one side, of course, is APAC,
• 17:13the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.
• 17:16Many people in APEC,
• 17:18I think claim believe that they
• 17:20represent the majority of American Jews.
• 17:23But many American Jews will
• 17:25have nothing to do with APEC and
• 17:28organizations such as Shallow Mahshad,
• 17:30Peace now, and J Street.
• 17:32Jewish voices for peace and many,
• 17:35many other organizations see themselves
• 17:37as strongly identitarian Jews and
• 17:40Jewishness and diasporic Jews,
• 17:44but equally strongly value based criticism
• 17:48critically critical of Israeli policies.
• 17:52But not advocating the destruction
• 17:54of the State of Israel by any means.
• 17:58But instead wanting a more just
• 18:02and peaceful Israel.
• 18:03And furthermore,
• 18:05there's other DS sporic identifying
• 18:08strains that have always been.
• 18:10You know in in in the US and
• 18:12before that in Eastern Europe,
• 18:14the bundas Yiddish W strains.
• 18:17So it's anything but homogeneous and
• 18:20that's something that's occluded by
• 18:23kind of crude anti-Semitic discourse.
• 18:25And as we just described,
• 18:27some of this battle is being fought on
• 18:30university campuses and the pressure
• 18:33on universities to adopt A particular
• 18:37definition of anti-Semitism and
• 18:39this has caused huge controversy.
• 18:42Where I teach most of the time in England,
• 18:45I've seen it there,
• 18:46but I'm also in close touch with
• 18:48colleagues here in this country
• 18:49about the same issue.
• 18:50And there's a lot of problems with this
• 18:53academics concerned about self censorship,
• 18:56about deep platforming issues,
• 18:57about academic freedom,
• 18:59freedom of speech,
• 19:00and also some academics wonder
• 19:03about the exceptionalist discourse,
• 19:06the exceptionalist implication of of.
• 19:11Imposing such a definition of
• 19:14anti-Semitism thinking well why
• 19:16should a definition of anti-Semitism
• 19:19be treated any differently from
• 19:22anti racist or anti LGBTQ or other
• 19:25kind of hate speech policies?
• 19:27So if our job as academics is
• 19:31to facilitate young peoples
• 19:34critical thinking abilities,
• 19:36we need to be quite concerned
• 19:38about some of these debates.
• 19:40It's also perhaps useful to think
• 19:44about rising anti-Semitism in
• 19:46relation to rising Islamophobia.
• 19:49In my work I've seen some places
• 19:53where official philosemitism
• 19:55is expressed via Islamophobia.
• 19:58So Co opting Jewish groups to privilege
• 20:00them or to protect them against
• 20:02unwanted Muslims and I think these
• 20:05things are are less known about,
• 20:07less discussed,
• 20:07but equally need to be brought to the fore.
• 20:12Umm.
• 20:16And in an another thing to consider
• 20:18when you're talking about why this rise
• 20:20and so forth in the post Cold War era,
• 20:22when we no longer live in an antinomian
• 20:27universe, does rising anti-Semitism
• 20:29and Islamophobia kind of do these
• 20:33things fill a conceptual gap of in
• 20:36other to blame for what's wrong?
• 20:39Another thing is temporality.
• 20:41The issue of you know,
• 20:44time, another factor,
• 20:46the distance in time from the Holocaust
• 20:50means an attenuation of social and
• 20:54cultural proximity to an understanding of
• 20:58Jewishness by many non Jews in particular.
• 21:01So for many,
• 21:03especially what I've seen in Europe,
• 21:05the very notion of Jew is a historical,
• 21:08mythological, mythologized figure
• 21:11along with associated stereotypes.
• 21:15And even in places where people
• 21:17do have some contact with Jews,
• 21:20we can see an unself conscious
• 21:23practice of microaggressions based on
• 21:26old tropes to be quite commonplace.
• 21:30I've seen this all the time in England.
• 21:33Where Jews are always marked as
• 21:35an other as different,
• 21:37not able to fit in or fully integrate,
• 21:39regardless of how many generations
• 21:42they might have been there.
• 21:44And like some other European nations,
• 21:46England, as opposed to Britain,
• 21:49has a sense of itself as an
• 21:52ethnically homogeneous nation.
• 21:54And again unlike the United States whose
• 21:56which with an ideology of an immigration,
• 22:00you know we're an immigration country,
• 22:01everybody you know can trace themselves
• 22:03to you know being an immigrant,
• 22:05even indigenous people who
• 22:07crossed the land mass.
• 22:08But.
• 22:11So it's quite different in European
• 22:14nation states.
• 22:15And Jewishness, of course,
• 22:16is marked as an other in Germany in
• 22:19linguistic conventions, and in other ways,
• 22:22all the way to the perverse practice of.
• 22:25Anti vaxxers in the last couple
• 22:27of years wearing the yellow star.
• 22:30I showing their identification
• 22:31with a sense of persecution,
• 22:34with the predicament of
• 22:35Jews in the Third Reich.
• 22:36And there's many,
• 22:37many other kinds of examples
• 22:39of things that we can see as.
• 22:42Macro and micro aggressions and and
• 22:44and label them as anti-Semitism.
• 22:47But I think we need to contextualize
• 22:50very carefully and unpack you know the
• 22:53the cultural and social and political
• 22:56and economic contexts that these all
• 22:58occur in and I will pass the MIC now
• 23:00thank you so much Ruth just a comment
• 23:04to to everyone here I want to
• 23:06apologize in advance to that person or
• 23:08those people who have an absolutely
• 23:10essential question or point to make.
• 23:12Because I do end conferences on time,
• 23:14so I apologize if, if if I don't
• 23:16get to all the questions or comments
• 23:18they are racking up here on the line.
• 23:20And I'm sure there's folks in
• 23:21the room that have questions too.
• 23:22So I'm going to ask you guys to keep
• 23:24your comments a little bit brief
• 23:26because we've got about 1/2 an hour
• 23:28left for your comments and for the
• 23:30comments and questions from the audience.
• 23:31By all means I want to hear David and
• 23:33Torsten, what you guys have to say.
• 23:34And I do want to leave some time,
• 23:35but I promise you is going to be
• 23:37somebody in this room and on zoom
• 23:38was going to have something terribly
• 23:39important to say.
• 23:40And I'm afraid I'm not going to get to it,
• 23:41but I'll do my best.
• 23:43I'm. I'll make it easy, Mark.
• 23:45I didn't actually prepare an opening remark.
• 23:48And I will make a confession
• 23:49that is that I I don't.
• 23:52Think much about anti-Semitism
• 23:54in my daily life.
• 23:56That's an admission that I'm
• 23:58not proud to make.
• 24:00I know enough about it to know
• 24:03that it is extremely complicated,
• 24:05and I haven't made the effort to make
• 24:08myself smart about the subject these days.
• 24:11I will tell you that after having been the
• 24:14CEO of a Jewish cultural institution in
• 24:16New York for 15 years beginning in 2000,
• 24:20that the impact of.
• 24:22Anti-Semitism and the threat that it,
• 24:25that it loomed,
• 24:26that loomed for us because of it,
• 24:28was one of the major issues
• 24:31that kept me up at night.
• 24:32The notion of of being responsible for
• 24:35the safety and security of our building,
• 24:38of my colleagues,
• 24:39and of the public that came in
• 24:41was enough to turn my once dark
• 24:43brown hair to the color it is now.
• 24:46I was never more.
• 24:48Never happier to relinquish one set
• 24:51of responsibilities than to leave New
• 24:54York City with an intact institution
• 24:56that was the object of of so much
• 25:01intense scrutiny by certain folks.
• 25:04I remember how seriously your
• 25:06organization took security and
• 25:07how professionally they were.
• 25:08How professionally they went about it.
• 25:10You could tell some thought went into it.
• 25:12Keeping folks safe, Torsten.
• 25:17Is it on? Yeah, great. Thanks.
• 25:23So my background is obviously
• 25:25German and as a historian,
• 25:27so I will not pretend to be.
• 25:31Competent and qualified to talk
• 25:32about American contemporary
• 25:33situations more than living here.
• 25:35And of course following the debates as well,
• 25:38where we'll start as saying I think
• 25:41it's really important to remind
• 25:42ourselves that as much as we can
• 25:44talk about an eternal hatred,
• 25:46as one book title goes,
• 25:47that we do need to understand
• 25:49that anti-Semitism has meant very
• 25:51different things over the ages.
• 25:52And it might be nothing where
• 25:53we want to go right now.
• 25:54But I think just as a reminder of that.
• 25:57And for a more contemporary setting,
• 25:58I'll just mention that that
• 26:00of course for European,
• 26:01and I think for broader context of
• 26:03course means that what we've seen
• 26:04post Holocaust is what scholars have
• 26:07called secondary anti-Semitism.
• 26:08What they mean by that term is an
• 26:11antisemitism, not in spite of the Shoah,
• 26:13but because of the Shoah.
• 26:14So that you have Germans who say,
• 26:15well, I'm,
• 26:16I'm so upset and annoyed by
• 26:19this feeling of guilt,
• 26:20I'll find a way to attack
• 26:22those who remind me of it.
• 26:23So that's a very specific,
• 26:24of course, German setting,
• 26:25but of course also one that
• 26:26we find broader in.
• 26:27Context of complicity,
• 26:28so secondary anti-Semitism.
• 26:30And to open that up,
• 26:31that can of worms that I'm sure
• 26:33we'll get more to uh, of course,
• 26:34we also see what's sociology,
• 26:36sociologists of anti-Semitism
• 26:37will call detour communication.
• 26:39And what they mean by that is you actually.
• 26:44Have antisemitic concepts and
• 26:46notions and feelings you choose
• 26:48because of certain kind of
• 26:50limitations in public discourse to
• 26:52talk about Israel in that context.
• 26:54But what you mean is different forms of it,
• 26:57and that's of course one.
• 26:59Whether that's exactly a
• 27:00description of the contemporary
• 27:01situation is probably debatable,
• 27:03but that I think is just
• 27:04one way of describing it.
• 27:05So not going further into the history thing.
• 27:07But I will mention that coming
• 27:09from that kind of German angle,
• 27:10it is thought provoking that in October 2019.
• 27:13A right wing extremist tries
• 27:16to get into a synagogue in
• 27:18Heller and kill the community.
• 27:19And a few months later another right
• 27:22wing extremist goes to Hannah and
• 27:24kills nine people with an immigrant
• 27:26background for racist reasons as well.
• 27:28So racism,
• 27:28anti-Semitism is a reality in Germany.
• 27:31Obviously.
• 27:31Also we have had cases in America recently.
• 27:35And very often they are,
• 27:36in their resurgence also coming hand in hand.
• 27:39So the question is,
• 27:40and that's a very big debate of course,
• 27:41in the German and European
• 27:42setting and probably broader,
• 27:44what is the relationship between
• 27:46anti-Semitism and racism?
• 27:47And part of that debate obviously has a
• 27:49lot to do with how we think about history,
• 27:51how we think of history education,
• 27:54how do we deal with the history
• 27:55of Nazism and the Holocaust
• 27:57in a society and in societies,
• 27:58and I'm sure UK is the same case here,
• 28:01that increasingly has become multicultural,
• 28:02right? So what do we do
• 28:04with a German society?
• 28:05One out of four families come
• 28:08from migrant backgrounds.
• 28:09You cannot talk the same way about Nazism,
• 28:11antisemitism as you could
• 28:12generation or two ago.
• 28:13This situation live in a
• 28:15different place and you suddenly
• 28:16have young people who say,
• 28:17So what is the relationship between
• 28:19my experiences of being persecuted
• 28:21for racist reasons because of my
• 28:24the color of my skin and that whole
• 28:26anti-Semitism saying that my teachers
• 28:27talks obsessively about, right.
• 28:29How can I connect that basically.
• 28:30So that's the big issue in many ways,
• 28:32and that's what we're defining
• 28:34also the discussions in that.
• 28:35Situation.
• 28:36And that's of course connected with
• 28:38all questions about how do we deal
• 28:40with the history of imperialism
• 28:41and colonialism in the German case,
• 28:43how do we deal with the murder
• 28:45of NAMA and Herero in Africa?
• 28:46How did that genocide,
• 28:48how was that connected with the Holocaust?
• 28:50Is there a blindness in the
• 28:52German debate to all these cases,
• 28:53whether it was racism and
• 28:55colonialism in German history?
• 28:56We don't see that because we
• 28:57only focus on the Holocaust.
• 28:59Those are the debates that
• 29:00we see going on right now.
• 29:01And that of course are intertwined with that,
• 29:03and it goes with the whole.
• 29:05Exhibition at the Humboldt Forum.
• 29:06It goes with art discussions over art.
• 29:08Some of you have followed European
• 29:10discussions would be familiar
• 29:12with the enormous below up and and
• 29:14disaster surrounding the documenta
• 29:15exhibition last year, right?
• 29:17So there.
• 29:18This has been omnipresent in
• 29:19many complex ways.
• 29:21I will say though with the eye on the time.
• 29:24That I would strongly argue to see the
• 29:27difference between antisemitism and racism.
• 29:30There are all kinds of connections,
• 29:32but of course I would argue in
• 29:35favor of not seeing anti-Semitism
• 29:37as a subcategory of racism.
• 29:39Among other things,
• 29:41also because,
• 29:42and that's where I might kind of open
• 29:44up a little bit of a different angle.
• 29:45I think,
• 29:46as a lot of scholars that
• 29:48I read would emphasize,
• 29:50racism has a gaze downwards and
• 29:52looks at people who have to be
• 29:55civilized and and who are inferior.
• 29:57anti-Semitism, historically and contemporary,
• 29:59has a tendency of having a gaze upwards.
• 30:02It has nothing to do with reality,
• 30:03right?
• 30:04Antisemitism is not a question of reality
• 30:05and sometimes not a question of Jews.
• 30:07Antisemitism is the question
• 30:08of the society that Jews.
• 30:09Might live in or at least are imagined to
• 30:12be in right just to state that obvious.
• 30:14But there's a gaze upwards
• 30:16to towards the power.
• 30:17And I would say it has always been
• 30:18like that even in these cases.
• 30:20So I think those are important aspects.
• 30:22And when we look at anti-Semitism
• 30:23in a setting that we had today
• 30:24in terms of the Holocaust,
• 30:25of course there is that different
• 30:27notion of redemptive anti-Semitism,
• 30:28right.
• 30:29So we have all kinds of racist
• 30:32notions even in a Nazi context,
• 30:34but the only group that actually
• 30:36can bring redemption when
• 30:37we as Germans murdered them are the Jews.
• 30:40That's, that's the different setting,
• 30:41basically in this setting.
• 30:42I think that's an important
• 30:43distinction of course to be made in
• 30:45that kind of historical context.
• 30:46What makes things so difficult is
• 30:47of course that it all depends on
• 30:49what glasses you put on, right.
• 30:51Do you put on the glasses that will give
• 30:54you a perspective of a long history of the,
• 30:59the, the, the othering and.
• 31:02The distancing and the suppression
• 31:04of people of color in the European
• 31:06setting with with centuries of history
• 31:08of colonialism and imperialism and
• 31:09slavery in that context and Israel in
• 31:11that perspective is one of the last
• 31:14kind of fits of a colonial enterprise.
• 31:18Or do you turn it around and say,
• 31:19well, first and foremost Europe is a
• 31:21place of history, of centuries of,
• 31:23of suppression of Jews,
• 31:25and in that context Jews will be
• 31:27seen as the victims in that context.
• 31:29And that's of course the clash
• 31:31that is unfolding.
• 31:32To some degree on American campuses,
• 31:34I believe definitely also in that
• 31:36kind of German debate that we see
• 31:39at the same time to close where
• 31:41really things come to heed heat.
• 31:43Sorry.
• 31:44No, heat is the whole discussion about BDS,
• 31:48right?
• 31:48And that's to some degree,
• 31:49I'm sure also the discussions
• 31:51and the campus settings.
• 31:54And though I'm trying to be more analytical,
• 31:56I will venture for an opinion here also.
• 31:58I think that it's in a German setting.
• 32:00We clearly can see that there is a
• 32:04gap between a political cultural
• 32:06elite in Germany that is almost
• 32:09exaggerating in its protection of
• 32:12of these kind of values that Germany
• 32:15comes from and thinks that the right
• 32:17thing is to to criminalize the BDS.
• 32:20And there are quite a few Israeli
• 32:23Jews and American Jews who try to
• 32:25communicate into the German discourse.
• 32:28That's not meaningful.
• 32:29But when you then have non Jewish
• 32:31Germans to say I agree with that,
• 32:33they get into trouble and lose
• 32:35their jobs and I think that's very
• 32:38unhealthy dynamics that is very
• 32:39much transnational and shows how
• 32:43detrimental these kind of discourses
• 32:44in many ways can be in that setting.
• 32:47And by the way,
• 32:48it's also a generational issue because we
• 32:50have a generational shift going on right now.
• 32:52It's the 60 eighters,
• 32:53we're on the way out and the German setting.
• 32:55That means that you have all these
• 32:57people who are so proud of their own
• 32:59achievements and they're annoyed that.
• 33:00These youngins come in and talk
• 33:02about post colonialism all the time.
• 33:03They don't shut up and just acknowledge
• 33:05that I have the right voice here,
• 33:06right?
• 33:06There's also that kind of generational
• 33:08conflict that is going on at the same
• 33:10time people like Meghan Mendel at the
• 33:12Anne Frank Center in Frankfurt and
• 33:13other people have just a few months
• 33:15ago try to bring out a book that they
• 33:17haven't gave the beautiful title frenemies,
• 33:19where they describe how people who
• 33:21fight against racism and people
• 33:22who fight against anti-Semitism
• 33:24have so much that they could share,
• 33:26but in the end they end up at each
• 33:28other's throats. How sad that is.
• 33:29But that's also the reality, of course.
• 33:31And in the end the project that
• 33:33book project that just. Came out.
• 33:36Almost collapsed because of that BS
• 33:39conflict as you can see how what a
• 33:42mine field that is. Two last points.
• 33:45The one thing is.
• 33:48I find it problematic when we have
• 33:52a tendency to emphasize.
• 33:55Anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic traditions
• 33:57on the left and in Muslim contexts.
• 34:00I've researched it,
• 34:01I've written about it,
• 34:02I think it's important.
• 34:03But I find it a problem when it
• 34:05becomes this gesture of ex territorial
• 34:07rising antisemitism that it doesn't
• 34:09really have something to do with.
• 34:11They have to remind ourselves that
• 34:13in America and in Germany,
• 34:15to a significant degree,
• 34:16antisemitism comes out of the
• 34:18midst of middle class society.
• 34:20It's not some fringes, it's not the others,
• 34:23it's not these people that are not
• 34:24like anyway and you talked about.
• 34:26Umm.
• 34:26Yes, number phobic potential
• 34:28that is in there as well,
• 34:30right?
• 34:30That we acknowledge and don't try
• 34:31to delegate it into groups that
• 34:33we anyway have a problem with.
• 34:34And the last point I'm going to say
• 34:36is in these debates what I find
• 34:39extremely important is let's try
• 34:40to be self critical and not only
• 34:43see the antisemitism that fits in
• 34:45coincidentally into my political view.
• 34:47So when I'm leaning left, I really see
• 34:49all the anti-Semitism on the right.
• 34:51When I'm leaving right,
• 34:52I really see the antisemitism on the left.
• 34:54That should make us wonder whether
• 34:55something wrong with our respective.
• 34:57Thank you. Thank you all very much.
• 34:59So we have as Karen here,
• 35:01so Karen if you would,
• 35:03we have a question first and then
• 35:04pass the microphone to Karen
• 35:05and she'll bring it to the next
• 35:07question if you could. Come on.
• 35:11Thank you for the excellent
• 35:13conference of the day,
• 35:16which really focuses on the Holocaust,
• 35:19but the reality of life on the
• 35:23American campus today is anti-Semitism,
• 35:27anti Israelism, anti Zionism,
• 35:30fear of the American Jewish student.
• 35:35I am severely concerned about
• 35:37my grandchildren when they go
• 35:39to college I'm concerned about.
• 35:41Anti-Semitism on the Yale campus.
• 35:44I encourage all of the readers and
• 35:46listeners on the zoom to read the
• 35:50International Holocaust Remembrance
• 35:51Alliance definition of anti-Semitism.
• 35:54I encourage you to read anti Zionism on
• 35:57the campus and have faculty is silenced
• 36:01when they have anything Pro Israel to
• 36:04say as a Conservative supporter of Israel,
• 36:07as a Jewish American Zionist if
• 36:09I were to walk down the campus.
• 36:12With a yamaka on my head or have a placard
• 36:15of anything that is supportive of Israel,
• 36:18I am sure I will not make it across
• 36:20the campus without being accosted.
• 36:23I challenge Yale University.
• 36:25To have a conference for the day.
• 36:29On anti-Semitism from the left
• 36:32and anti Zionism,
• 36:34yes Yuri one can be critical of
• 36:36a policy of the State of Israel.
• 36:39But if you disagree with the right
• 36:42of the Jewish people to have their
• 36:44self-determination and the land of
• 36:46Israel and the state of Israel's legitimacy,
• 36:49you are a bona fide anti Semite.
• 36:53It is as simple as that.
• 36:54This is not complicated and the groups
• 36:57that you described Jewish voices for peace.
• 36:59J street.
• 37:00These are extreme progressive left
• 37:03groups that do not accept Israel,
• 37:06that receive funding from Arab
• 37:08groups that do not represent the
• 37:11bulk of the Israeli electorate.
• 37:13I'm really surprised that your comments,
• 37:16and really I enjoyed your your
• 37:18talk about the stepping stones
• 37:20until you start pointing out people
• 37:22who are not supportive of Israel.
• 37:24I mean we have only one Israel and if
• 37:27you are against the existence of the
• 37:30State of Israel you are an anti Semite.
• 37:34So I'd like to give anyone on
• 37:36the panel for each of these the
• 37:37chance you're if you want to speak,
• 37:39or if anyone wants to speak in response
• 37:40or make a comment after the comments.
• 37:44Dorston.
• 37:48This. Is it on? OK, I would just, you know,
• 37:53agree to have to agree to disagree
• 37:55with some of your characterizations.
• 38:00Of course. Did you want to say something?
• 38:01I'll just briefly say is this
• 38:03on the MIC a little bit closer?
• 38:04This is better, yes.
• 38:05So the gentleman for the last comment
• 38:07comment trying to see that in the light here.
• 38:10Thank you. Thank you.
• 38:12I just wanted to add as a footnote
• 38:16that actually is a very vigorous and
• 38:18very important debate over these
• 38:20definitions and the IRA definition.
• 38:23Many very wise people say has
• 38:27substantial problems on all levels,
• 38:30linguistically, conceptually, and so on.
• 38:31I'll be happy to share some things with you.
• 38:33And there's a reason why the Jerusalem
• 38:36Declaration of Semitism came out
• 38:39as an alternative approach that
• 38:41has a good alternative to offer.
• 38:43And there.
• 38:43So in other words,
• 38:44the whole definition issue is an
• 38:46open one that deserves attention.
• 38:50Yeah, I would second that.
• 38:51I've been on my universities committee,
• 38:54we've been meeting for two years now
• 38:57to discuss precisely that because the
• 38:59British Government has been urging all
• 39:02universities to accept the IRA definition.
• 39:04But many universities say, you know,
• 39:07have have found problematic elements
• 39:08in it and are looking at the
• 39:11Jerusalem Declaration and others.
• 39:13So it's it's not a hard and fast
• 39:15you know done deal as the only
• 39:18definition of anti-Semitism.
• 39:19It's definitely.
• 39:20Under debate and as it
• 39:21should be at universities,
• 39:23that's what we're supposed to do.
• 39:24We're supposed to debate and
• 39:26think things through and,
• 39:27you know, not accept something as.
• 39:31As the truth,
• 39:33and it also was not,
• 39:34it was also not designed to be
• 39:38what it's being used for it.
• 39:40That's the last thing I think.
• 39:42Hang on, hang on, hang on one second, please.
• 39:45Said one one quick thing which is
• 39:49that that Jewish tradition in its
• 39:53wholeness has lots of questions and
• 39:57and uncomfortableness with with Jewish
• 40:01sovereignty with Jewish tradition that
• 40:03all of that there are lots of you know
• 40:07different Zionist ideas and theories
• 40:08you know throughout the whole period.
• 40:11So I I think it's it's it's a
• 40:13much more complicated landscape.
• 40:16That not been simple. Thank you.
• 40:22We have a certain gentleman
• 40:23here. The question. Umm.
• 40:27I I'd like to
• 40:29bring us back to. What I hope will is
• 40:35sort of the rationale for this panel,
• 40:37which is to connect rising anti-Semitism
• 40:41on campuses to the lectures that we heard
• 40:47about aspects of the Holocaust and what
• 40:51I'd like to know from the panelists.
• 40:54I think it's primarily a question
• 40:56for Doctor Wagner, but I'd like
• 40:59everybody's comments if they have is.
• 41:02What particular parallels do you see?
• 41:06In 1930s Germany that accelerated
• 41:12the rise of Nazism and ultimately
• 41:16concluded in the Holocaust with.
• 41:20Hints and behaviors,
• 41:22hints of behaviors and developments
• 41:25in present day America. And
• 41:29just to get you started, I'll give
• 41:31you mine very, very briefly.
• 41:35There is and thank you for mentioning BDS,
• 41:39a concerted effort by many enemies
• 41:42of the Jews to exclude entirely
• 41:47Israeli and oftentimes Jewish.
• 41:50Academics from academia with, I believe,
• 41:55the ultimate goal of excluding
• 41:58all Jews from
• 42:00the professions. I see that as a very
• 42:04obvious parallel to developments
• 42:07in Germany in the 1930s. Do
• 42:11you see other parallels
• 42:14that we should be concerned with?
• 42:19When Ruth? Just very briefly, parallels.
• 42:26I would say Parallels would be,
• 42:28I mean the the massive propaganda
• 42:31campaign of National Socialism.
• 42:34I would maybe compare that to what
• 42:38we now call alternative facts.
• 42:42And people believing them because
• 42:44thanks to the Internet and and so forth
• 42:47and you know there are people only
• 42:49get their news and their information
• 42:52from like minded other people in
• 42:54their own little echo chambers.
• 42:56So they the a broad base of discourse
• 43:02of debate barely exists anymore.
• 43:05So and thanks to Fox News as well though.
• 43:09Cortana.
• 43:11Torsten, you have something to say.
• 43:14I mean, that's a little closer if you.
• 43:17That's obviously an enormous question with
• 43:20with an enormous level of complexity.
• 43:22I'll just allude to some aspects
• 43:24that I think are worth thinking
• 43:26about and and reflecting on.
• 43:28I think one is of course the.
• 43:31Structural and other logic similarities
• 43:34between the ethnocentric movement of
• 43:38folkish ideology and white supremacy
• 43:40as we can see it in other settings
• 43:43in the US and in other places.
• 43:45I think that the phenomenon of
• 43:47Christian nationalism as self defined
• 43:49and as as a category is worth noting
• 43:52that I think that the context,
• 43:54which by the way is an interesting
• 43:56difference between Germany and America.
• 43:58If you look at the role of anti-Semitism,
• 44:00the phenomenon of having a love
• 44:01of Israel that has entered Jewish
• 44:03dimensions to it is one that we find in
• 44:06a magical context and not necessarily
• 44:09in Christian German context, right.
• 44:10So there are similarities and
• 44:12differences so to speak there.
• 44:14I think that an important.
• 44:16Factory,
• 44:16the factor that we always need to ask
• 44:20is to what degree is there a consensus
• 44:23of people who identify with democracy,
• 44:26whether they're slightly left or
• 44:28slightly left or slightly right of the
• 44:30center that you cannot end up giving
• 44:32in and having compromises with the
• 44:34radical strains of politics that are
• 44:37willing to undermine civil society
• 44:39and having an inclusive society.
• 44:41So when you have in in the,
• 44:42in the current US situation when
• 44:45you end up having.
• 44:46Uh,
• 44:47a moderate right that is willing to
• 44:49open up to a radical right and say,
• 44:52you know,
• 44:52whether there is a focus on civil
• 44:54society or life or the other way on the left,
• 44:56to whatever degree we see that.
• 44:58And that's not my main point here,
• 44:59but I will probably see more of
• 45:01an issue on the right personally,
• 45:02then I think that is a phenomenon
• 45:04that brings me to think about
• 45:061933 and those compromises.
• 45:07But I also think there's a problem
• 45:10with two fast analogies with 1933.
• 45:12And I think there's a danger of
• 45:14staring on that and then also having.
• 45:16That's the fear uh paralyzes in that context.
• 45:21So
• 45:21I'd like next going to go to the to someone
• 45:24from the in Zoom land and invite all
• 45:26others who are on on the webinar to submit
• 45:29questions or comments through the Q&A.
• 45:31But now in some of the medical educators in
• 45:33the in the audience might wish to comment
• 45:35on this as well as well as the folks up here.
• 45:38And this is an article that I've not seen
• 45:39and perhaps someone here has seen it,
• 45:41but I think we one could still
• 45:43comment on the on the observation.
• 45:44Please comment on Doctor Eileen
• 45:46Cooper's recent article in the Canadian
• 45:48medical Education literature detailing.
• 45:51Pervasive anti-Semitism on campuses there,
• 45:53including the medical school and
• 45:55what your thoughts are on how
• 45:58to combat comprehensively now,
• 46:00especially as the topic of rampant
• 46:02anti-Semitism is generally
• 46:03not included in diversity,
• 46:05equity and inclusion educational initiatives.
• 46:10Anyone have thoughts on this?
• 46:12You right please.
• 46:12So I I can't comment on the article piece
• 46:15of it but the but the latter piece of it.
• 46:19We've been doing a lot of work with the
• 46:22administration around making sure that
• 46:24anti-Semitism is is included and diversity,
• 46:26equity and equity and inclusion efforts.
• 46:29Those conversations have been really quite,
• 46:32quite productive and there's a lot of
• 46:35interest at least in the folks that that
• 46:37that I'm speaking to about making sure
• 46:40that people know what anti-Semitism is.
• 46:42Yale has this whole belonging at
• 46:45Yale initiative, which has been,
• 46:47you know, just being.
• 46:48Rolled out in different ways from what I
• 46:50understand across across the university.
• 46:53And there's a huge amount of interest
• 46:56actually in making sure that Jews
• 46:58feel like they belong and increasing
• 47:00levels of feelings of of,
• 47:02of Jewish belonging in education.
• 47:04And in fact just this last week we were
• 47:07in conversations with with the people
• 47:09who are running that program because
• 47:11our bagel brunches that we run every
• 47:14other Sunday get hundreds of people,
• 47:16Jews and non Jews alike,
• 47:18and they're going to be featured.
• 47:20Is one of the, you know,
• 47:21one of the one of the belonging at Yale
• 47:24initiatives because it it creates an
• 47:27environment where lots of people can belong.
• 47:29It's within a Jewish context so that so
• 47:31that Jews can feel like they belong,
• 47:33other people can learn about what
• 47:34it means to be Jewish.
• 47:36We wouldn't be having these conversations.
• 47:37We wouldn't be getting places.
• 47:39We wouldn't be doing a training next
• 47:42week for some of for for for some
• 47:44folks on the on the on the on the
• 47:47in the DI space if there weren't,
• 47:49if there,
• 47:50if there weren't this type of interest.
• 47:51So there are things,
• 47:52there are a lot of things that
• 47:54Yale is doing is doing right.
• 47:56We have had you know various anti-Semitic
• 47:58issues from time to time and we've been
• 48:01really on top of them and and build
• 48:03strong partnerships with the university.
• 48:06But you know,
• 48:07I I think,
• 48:07I think there's a lot going right here.
• 48:12I want to anybody in the audience
• 48:13involved in medical education,
• 48:14if it has a comment on whether we feel
• 48:16because the question or commented also
• 48:18about on the presence of anti-Semitism
• 48:20in the medical schools and the
• 48:22inclusion of anti-Semitism education
• 48:23and DE I work at the medical schools.
• 48:27I don't know if anybody here feels commented
• 48:29or interested in speaking to that.
• 48:38City is fine. This is fine. The problem
• 48:42is the word equity,
• 48:44which means equity and outcome.
• 48:46So I speak to people around the country
• 48:49whose brilliant Jewish kids are not
• 48:51accepted into good universities,
• 48:53are not accepted into jobs
• 48:56and programs because Jews are
• 48:58considered an overrepresented group.
• 49:01This is the problem with DEI.
• 49:04It's not in Martin Luther King's view.
• 49:07It is not the American view.
• 49:09It's not what our grandparents,
• 49:12our Jewish grandparents face when
• 49:14they came to this country where
• 49:16there was equality of opportunity.
• 49:18So I encourage you to read the definition
• 49:21of the equity component in DEI.
• 49:24Is this A and some folks up here?
• 49:26I want to comment, but it would seem
• 49:29from recent best publicized lawsuit
• 49:31that this is not a concern unique to
• 49:34anti-Semitism in terms of students
• 49:37being students being excluded.
• 49:38Comments. Alright Yuri
• 49:40I'll just, I'll just say quickly that
• 49:42that there there are seven members
• 49:44of the university administration who
• 49:46are right now in a 15 month training
• 49:48course on anti-Semitism with me.
• 49:50I'm really really proud of that and
• 49:52and they're doing great work and I
• 49:54want to highlight Darren Lattimore
• 49:56who's who's you know one of the the DI
• 49:58Dean here at the medical school who's
• 50:00just been a paragon of excellence in
• 50:03this in this area paying attention.
• 50:05There are problems I, I, I,
• 50:07I know and we've got a great team of people.
• 50:09You know working to do the best we can here.
• 50:12Well that's very good to hear because
• 50:13Darren Lattimore for those in the audience
• 50:14who don't know it is the person who
• 50:16leads one of the individuals who leads
• 50:17the the DI work at the medical school.
• 50:20So that's that's encouraging to
• 50:21hear other comments or questions.
• 50:23I think I have a another one
• 50:25here if I can scroll to it. Umm.
• 50:31OK, there's people who disagree,
• 50:34but nothing in terms of substantive
• 50:36questions here or comments.
• 50:41OK. And you can certainly submit these
• 50:43questions anonymously if you wish
• 50:45to say something about that,
• 50:46of course, actually.
• 50:48So I know, I know that that you know,
• 50:52some of the things that I shared
• 50:54may not be the most popular.
• 50:56They sort of go out of, out of.
• 51:01Uh uh out of resonance with with
• 51:03where where some folks are coming
• 51:04from the only reason I I I'm,
• 51:06I I sit here and say things that I
• 51:08know are going to be somewhat unpopular
• 51:09because I think they're really true.
• 51:11I've I've been a hall director for
• 51:13I'm in my 12th year as a health
• 51:16director and worked with hundreds
• 51:17and hundreds of students and and
• 51:19and lots of staff have worked with
• 51:21thousands and thousands of students.
• 51:23And what I'm trying to reflect is is my
• 51:26combined you know perspective as well
• 51:28as that of my of the people on my staff.
• 51:31Um, to try and let everyone know
• 51:33about what's really happening in the
• 51:36undergraduate experience especially
• 51:38and put ideas out there for,
• 51:41for, for conversation.
• 51:42Thank you very much and we appreciate.
• 51:44I think that's. In a nutshell,
• 51:46the purpose of a university is to
• 51:47be able to speak out in that way.
• 51:49Thank you. Others. We have some.
• 51:52I'm sorry, I got the bright lights here.
• 51:58Where are we going?
• 52:05See if that one works, that would be great.
• 52:09I comes.
• 52:12This is no time for a coffee break.
• 52:16Hi, umm. I'm a medical student here, and,
• 52:20you know, it's just a little surprised
• 52:22to hear this comment of Jews having
• 52:25a hard time getting into schools.
• 52:27And that used to be easier
• 52:29for Jews to get into schools.
• 52:30I think maybe some of the
• 52:33historians here might know that
• 52:35institutions historically did
• 52:38not allow Jews into universities.
• 52:42And there was a lot
• 52:43of. A big a big history and
• 52:47legacy of anti-Semitism.
• 52:49In the US and so I was just
• 52:52interested if anyone could
• 52:53comment more on that and also.
• 52:57On just the. You know,
• 53:00kind of, you know, in in
• 53:02Germany after the Holocaust,
• 53:04there are a lot of things done to
• 53:06kind of repair the anti-Semitism.
• 53:10Umm, my understanding
• 53:12is the US in World War Two also had a
• 53:15lot of very, like eugenic beliefs and
• 53:19anti-Semitism and kind of. Umm. How that
• 53:25relates to where we are now not
• 53:28really having. Formal ways to repair.
• 53:34Those beliefs.
• 53:40I'll just say something on the first
• 53:42part of the on the on the question.
• 53:45So we were actually just Roosters
• 53:47made a comment about this this too.
• 53:48So you know there used to be quotas
• 53:51you know whether they were official
• 53:53quotas or their whatever there used
• 53:55to be you know a a very specific
• 53:57limit on on on Jewish admissions and
• 53:59then from everything that I hear I I
• 54:02don't know if it's true but everything
• 54:04I hear from everybody is that is
• 54:05that that somewhere in the let's say
• 54:07the the the 90s and the and the.
• 54:102000s Yale was like 2530% Jewish in
• 54:14the undergraduate population that's
• 54:15you you almost uniformly people say
• 54:17that except the admissions department
• 54:19says that can't be true.
• 54:21I don't know if it's true but that
• 54:23was the that was the sense and now the
• 54:26numbers are are much are much lower
• 54:28again and and and my my colleague
• 54:31Robert Jason Rubenstein is you know
• 54:33puts it like this he says essentially
• 54:36you know this this diminution of of.
• 54:40Of Jews, which is not specific to Yale.
• 54:42It's kind of a cry.
• 54:43It's across the Ivy League,
• 54:44it's across the competitive schools,
• 54:46and it's not just Jews also,
• 54:47but let's just focus on the Jews is
• 54:49we've actually been too successful.
• 54:51Because before we were we were
• 54:54kept out because we were different.
• 54:56Then we were let in because we
• 54:59were different.
• 55:00And now we're actually not in in the
• 55:02in the sort of the public you know,
• 55:04in the public demographic,
• 55:06we're actually not so different
• 55:08not so interesting there.
• 55:10There are groups that are much more
• 55:12interesting now there are Jews who
• 55:14fall into the more interesting
• 55:16categories but they're not coming
• 55:17to places like Yale in such great
• 55:19numbers that at this moment in in time.
• 55:21So.
• 55:22So there's this,
• 55:23there's this you know to to say
• 55:25there's quotas now the the the
• 55:27limitations now is not the same
• 55:29as the limitations were.
• 55:31You know years ago and I think
• 55:33it's worth it's worth thinking
• 55:34about what those changes mean and
• 55:37how can we interpret them in ways
• 55:39that that both you know help the
• 55:41university see that a robust and
• 55:43vibrant Jewish community is in its
• 55:45best its own best interest which I
• 55:47think is is is is objectively true
• 55:49and also being being ally an ally
• 55:52with the university and and and
• 55:54helping us to to gain to gain the
• 55:57kind of respect that that we deserve.
• 56:00Just on that very point I would recommend.
• 56:04If you're interested in in this,
• 56:06I don't know, yeah.
• 56:08Listen, podcast, I think under the
• 56:13rubric of tablet called Gate Crushers.
• 56:15I don't know if anyone's heard it.
• 56:17And it's about six or seven parts.
• 56:18It's by Mark Oppenheimer,
• 56:21who is a local journalist,
• 56:24former teacher here at Yale.
• 56:26And each episode focuses on the
• 56:28history of Jews at 1 Ivy League School.
• 56:31And from the beginning from and it's
• 56:33ups and downs and exactly what we said.
• 56:36And it gives a it's a very it's a very well.
• 56:39Run deep dive into why there were
• 56:43quotas and how the quotas were
• 56:45lifted and what happened in between.
• 56:46So gate crushers.
• 56:49Thank you. And I think, Torsten,
• 56:50I think that you'll have this
• 56:53unless I see, unless someone
• 56:54else has something on the panel,
• 56:55say this may be the final word, but.
• 56:58Carefully here. This is seriously,
• 56:59David again, you got the point. No.
• 57:01If I ever get it on here again,
• 57:03we'll let Mike up close and then.
• 57:09Better. Now I just have to be close enough.
• 57:11OK, no pressure, huh?
• 57:12So just briefly about the Germany thing.
• 57:15Um, what I seen, what I seemed
• 57:18to hear was that things had been
• 57:21better post 1945 in Germany and I
• 57:23would be very hesitant about that.
• 57:25I think that antisemitism lived
• 57:28on alive and kicking for decades.
• 57:30A good friend of mine who actually,
• 57:32by the way, I can recommend that,
• 57:34just brought a very powerful
• 57:36exhibit about fake images.
• 57:37That is about racist.
• 57:39Anti-Semitic stereotypes exhibition that
• 57:41is on at the United Nations in New York.
• 57:44So if you want to follow up on some
• 57:46of these conversations and the
• 57:47interconnectedness between racism and
• 57:49anti-Semitism that's replaced, OK,
• 57:50same guy friends and just brought
• 57:52out a book that actually focuses on
• 57:54a antisemitic murder in Germany,
• 57:56in in West Germany,
• 57:571981 that many of us have forgotten about,
• 58:00right.
• 58:00So I think that of course that is
• 58:03around and I was actually about
• 58:05to say something more kind of
• 58:06wrapping up from my side.
• 58:07Anyways, I'm going to do that now.
• 58:09As Mark pushed me into the situation,
• 58:11I believe that.
• 58:14I see two very sad developments
• 58:16at the same time,
• 58:18both in the European German setting
• 58:20and an American 11 is a accelerating.
• 58:26Um,
• 58:27competition of victim experiences
• 58:29that create rivalries and tensions.
• 58:32And they each of themselves have
• 58:35a lot of valid validity to them.
• 58:37And I also think it would be naive to
• 58:40think that there would be any harmony soon,
• 58:42right?
• 58:42We probably just have to live and
• 58:44find ways to live with the lack of
• 58:46harmony because of that competition.
• 58:48And the second point connected
• 58:50to some degree.
• 58:52That is the sad unease with
• 58:57annoying divergent opinions.
• 58:58And there are some scholars
• 58:59like Jonathan Height,
• 59:01who would say that Eden also comes to
• 59:02some degree the way that we've used
• 59:03social media for the last 5-10 years,
• 59:05right?
• 59:05So that's also has something
• 59:06to do with how we communicate,
• 59:07of course.
• 59:08So I would hope that there is a little
• 59:10bit more of a self critical analysis
• 59:12of how hard it is for us to actually be
• 59:14in the room with people who annoy us,
• 59:16were,
• 59:16irritate us and were able to.
• 59:18That does not mean that I'm
• 59:19saying we should not think about.
• 59:21How to restrain incitement to
• 59:23hate and violence, right,
• 59:25that's this difficult balance.
• 59:26But we need to recalibrate that
• 59:28relationship and find out how
• 59:30to deal with that and sit with
• 59:31that unease at the same time.
• 59:34Thank you very much.
• 59:35So stepping back a bit from this
• 59:38panel and this conversation which
• 59:39I'm grateful for this was and and
• 59:42thinking at the the entire conference
• 59:44and and kind of our purpose here.
• 59:47As as we've done it and it's, it's really.
• 59:50The the discussion of of Holocaust,
• 59:53the Holocaust of the Shoah as well
• 59:55as genocide large the involvement
• 59:58of physicians in these crimes as
• 01:00:00well as but not just the involvement
• 01:00:02of physicians and others.
• 01:00:03And so we try to balance that
• 01:00:05over the course of the program
• 01:00:07on this conversation needs to be
• 01:00:09very much about anti-Semitism.
• 01:00:10It needs to be very much
• 01:00:12about other things as well.
• 01:00:13And this is something that that Jacob
• 01:00:15and I had talked about when we when we
• 01:00:18first formulated the idea of this I.
• 01:00:20I'll tell you.
• 01:00:23Two remarkable things to finish it up.
• 01:00:25The generally one is.
• 01:00:28That it's remarkable that so
• 01:00:30many people can take a day to,
• 01:00:32to spend some time in this.
• 01:00:34There's a lot more people on the zoom
• 01:00:36call than there are here in the building.
• 01:00:38And you know there's we start out
• 01:00:40with over 200 in the afternoon
• 01:00:41we still have over 100.
• 01:00:42I mean this is,
• 01:00:44this is wonderful and I really
• 01:00:45appreciate you folks taking the time.
• 01:00:47Of course the opportunity that we
• 01:00:49all had was because of the generosity
• 01:00:51of my friend Jacob Lindenthal.
• 01:00:52But not just that,
• 01:00:53the generosity of their time
• 01:00:54of the people you see,
• 01:00:55I'm in front of the room.
• 01:00:56So many folks worked to make this better.
• 01:00:59Darren called the manager of our
• 01:01:01program who put this together,
• 01:01:03the folks from the IT team who came
• 01:01:05here and kept us moving forward.
• 01:01:07I my heartfelt thanks to everybody
• 01:01:09for doing this.
• 01:01:11The last I guess I would tell
• 01:01:13you and I'll tell you which is a
• 01:01:15true story and it's very brief,
• 01:01:18I promise.
• 01:01:18Not brief like the way you guys have brief.
• 01:01:20I mean really brief.
• 01:01:23Ah. So some time ago I was with a
• 01:01:25close friend from high school that
• 01:01:27wasn't that far out of high school.
• 01:01:29But of course all my high school friends
• 01:01:30are making a hell of a lot more than I was.
• 01:01:32And when it came up as to, you know,
• 01:01:35why are you doing it this way,
• 01:01:37which is to say, academic medicine.
• 01:01:41We talked about the advantages and
• 01:01:43disadvantages of various life choices
• 01:01:44we had made, but finally I said,
• 01:01:47and that's what ended the conversation.
• 01:01:49As I said, you know what I said?
• 01:01:51I get to work every day with people I admire.
• 01:01:54And that was something that the now
• 01:01:56don't get me wrong, I wish I had
• 01:01:58this much money as these guys have,
• 01:01:59but that was something they don't have.
• 01:02:02That's something that's so
• 01:02:03many of us here have.
• 01:02:05And today we certainly have to get
• 01:02:08to spend the day with people like the
• 01:02:10four of you and certainly the others
• 01:02:12and others who are here as well.
• 01:02:13And Andrew, it's a, it's a, it's a,
• 01:02:16it's a gift and one for which I'm,
• 01:02:19I'm truly grateful when whether we're
• 01:02:21working in the hospital and when we're
• 01:02:23in the newborn ICU or in the clinic.
• 01:02:25Or teaching.
• 01:02:26Wherever we are, we often have the
• 01:02:28chance to be with people we admire,
• 01:02:30and that's part of the fuel
• 01:02:31that keeps us going.
• 01:02:32It's a shot in the arm.
• 01:02:33And today I think it's fuel that's going
• 01:02:34to keep me going for a long time to come.
• 01:02:36And I hope you as well.
• 01:02:37Thank you all so much for coming.
• 01:02:39We'll be doing this again next year.
• 01:02:40Thank you.