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Yale Psychiatry Grand Rounds: February 26, 2021

February 26, 2021

Yale Psychiatry Grand Rounds: February 26, 2021

 .
  • 00:00And welcome to grand rounds.
  • 00:02I'm Cindy Crusoe.
  • 00:03Deputy Chair for Diversity equity,
  • 00:05inclusion in the Department of Psychiatry
  • 00:07and today's grand rounds will focus
  • 00:10on professionalism and one important
  • 00:12aspect of this talk will describe
  • 00:14a reporting mechanism for harmful
  • 00:16behavior in the School of Medicine,
  • 00:18and I just want to stress that that
  • 00:22is a necessary but insufficient
  • 00:23part of the work that we continue
  • 00:25to do around professionalism.
  • 00:28An addressing harmful behavior.
  • 00:29So I really want to.
  • 00:32Encourage us to tipping in those
  • 00:34terms and the work that we really
  • 00:36need to do to continue to build
  • 00:39community and trust within our
  • 00:41community so our presenters today
  • 00:43are Doctor Linda Mays who is the
  • 00:46Arnold Gesell professor of Child,
  • 00:48psychiatry,
  • 00:48Pediatrics and psychology at
  • 00:50the Yale Child Study Center.
  • 00:52She's also chair of the Yale Child
  • 00:54Study Center and director of the
  • 00:56Office of Academic Professionalism
  • 00:58and Development at Yale School of
  • 01:01Medicine and also joining us is.
  • 01:03Andrea Terrell on who is the director
  • 01:05of professionalism and Leadership
  • 01:06Development here in the Office of
  • 01:09Professionalism and Development.
  • 01:10So thank you all so much for being here.
  • 01:13I really appreciate your time and
  • 01:15I'm going to turn it over to you all.
  • 01:19Cindy, thank you so much and it's
  • 01:22really lovely to be with everyone.
  • 01:24Andrea and I have been going around
  • 01:26the medical school and speaking to
  • 01:28many groups and we're just grateful
  • 01:30for the opportunity to tell you what
  • 01:33we're trying to think about in terms of
  • 01:35professionalism and leadership in what
  • 01:37is now becoming VOA PD or the Office of
  • 01:41Academic Professionalism and Development.
  • 01:43What we'll do is bring you into
  • 01:45some of the activities of the office
  • 01:48and what we're trying to grow.
  • 01:50One of the things that it's been most
  • 01:52gratifying about are going around in these
  • 01:55meetings is actually hearing for everyone.
  • 01:57Hearing your suggestions,
  • 01:58hearing the things that are on your mind
  • 02:01that you would like to see changed.
  • 02:03And that helps us then know the directions
  • 02:06and refine the directions that we're going.
  • 02:09Let me just before we go
  • 02:10to the first slide slide,
  • 02:12let me just give a very brief
  • 02:14history of this office.
  • 02:16When Dean Brown joined are now a
  • 02:18year and one month ago to to become
  • 02:21Dean of the School of Medicine.
  • 02:24Nancy brought with her her experience
  • 02:26at Vanderbilt an A great sensibility
  • 02:29about how we bring professionalism.
  • 02:32Into our culture,
  • 02:33but also how we we work to change
  • 02:36that culture and we work to be very
  • 02:39clear about how professionalism
  • 02:41and leadership are coming together.
  • 02:44We also brought together the Office
  • 02:46of Faculty Affairs and what was
  • 02:48previously the Special Advisor to the
  • 02:51Dean office around this broader definition.
  • 02:53In this broader perspective,
  • 02:55on faculty and the development
  • 02:57of faculty in all aspects,
  • 02:59not just their academic careers,
  • 03:01but in their development as a professional.
  • 03:04So our area of the Office of the LAPD,
  • 03:07Andrea, if you can go to the next line.
  • 03:11Or are we? Can I move the slides?
  • 03:16So here are the areas that we focus on
  • 03:19in the professionalism side of oh APD.
  • 03:22Most importantly,
  • 03:23we're focusing on fostering a shared
  • 03:25community vision of professionalism.
  • 03:27What is it to be a professional in
  • 03:31an academic medical environment?
  • 03:33And why we say a shared community
  • 03:36vision is exactly that.
  • 03:37It needs to be shared among us,
  • 03:40but that professionalism is
  • 03:41a responsibility of everyone.
  • 03:43Once we have this community vision,
  • 03:45once we have a shared sense of
  • 03:47values then we all are responsible
  • 03:50for creating a professional culture.
  • 03:53And for upholding that culture.
  • 03:55And for actually mentoring on new
  • 03:57members to our community in that culture.
  • 04:00So the first bullet is very much about a
  • 04:03culture change in the School of Medicine,
  • 04:05and when we get to talking just in
  • 04:07the next slide about our values,
  • 04:09you'll see more of that.
  • 04:12But within that culture change
  • 04:14is also serving as a resource for
  • 04:17individuals who are experiencing
  • 04:19unprofessional behavior from their
  • 04:21colleagues in various settings.
  • 04:23And we want to be a place where
  • 04:25in the people feel that they can
  • 04:27trust that there is a resource.
  • 04:29If they can come to.
  • 04:32That that those responses will be timely.
  • 04:34They will be thoughtful,
  • 04:36will respect confidentiality so that
  • 04:37we are beginning to service that
  • 04:40resource for individuals and apart
  • 04:42then of that is the third bullet.
  • 04:44Is to create very clear processes
  • 04:47and mechanisms for reporting.
  • 04:49For addressing.
  • 04:50Resolving professionalism,
  • 04:51concerns and then following up
  • 04:53on whether how we address them,
  • 04:56how we resolve them has been effective
  • 04:59so bullets two and three really go
  • 05:02together and we'll talk a lot about that.
  • 05:05But on the other side.
  • 05:08As we need to build capacity and what
  • 05:10I mean by the other side is not just
  • 05:14addressing when behavior is problematic,
  • 05:16but how do we actually promote
  • 05:19positive professionalism?
  • 05:20How do we promote people developing
  • 05:22in this identity as professionals
  • 05:24and develop a capacity among all
  • 05:26of us on how to how to address and
  • 05:30facilitate faculty professionalism
  • 05:31so embedded in the fourth bullet
  • 05:34is not only increasing capacity by
  • 05:36training leaders across the school?
  • 05:38And how to recognize and address
  • 05:41professionalism concerns,
  • 05:42but also how to facilitate professionalism
  • 05:45development in their department's?
  • 05:48And in the final bullet,
  • 05:50we believe that leadership,
  • 05:51development and professionalism
  • 05:53development go hand in hand.
  • 05:55That there are sets of skills that
  • 05:57one can learn and learn and practice
  • 05:59and develop across the lifespan of
  • 06:02being a faculty member that promote
  • 06:04professional development that promote
  • 06:06professionalism and to that end we're
  • 06:09developing a number of leadership
  • 06:11development workshops and having a
  • 06:13cadre of coaches to support the faculty.
  • 06:16Andrea,
  • 06:17could we go to the next slide?
  • 06:21So defining professionalism,
  • 06:22I'm going to actually turn to my
  • 06:25colleague Andrea Trillion to start that.
  • 06:27Andrea our first task. As you could
  • 06:29imagine, is to try to do some level setting
  • 06:32in terms of what does professionalism mean.
  • 06:34And of course every time you try
  • 06:37to define professionalism you end
  • 06:39up with a list of don'ts, right?
  • 06:41It's always like I, I don't know what it is,
  • 06:44but I know what. It's not that
  • 06:46just seemed to come much easier.
  • 06:49So we try to really start.
  • 06:51With what do we have that exist that is
  • 06:54existing that can help us anger anger?
  • 06:56Our definition of professionalism
  • 06:58here at the School of Medicine.
  • 07:01We looked at some other organizations
  • 07:03and their kind of definitions.
  • 07:06Love the Mayo Clinic definition.
  • 07:08Here's some literature in
  • 07:10terms of academic definition,
  • 07:12but we started with what we have
  • 07:16throughout the University and
  • 07:18throughout the School of Medicine
  • 07:20and what we did is really again,
  • 07:23look at all of the values, standards,
  • 07:26policies that we have that really
  • 07:29set the standard for our behaviors.
  • 07:32Um and really.
  • 07:34Co late that and and consolidate it into
  • 07:38one spot because as you can imagine,
  • 07:42these are all iaccessible somewhere on some
  • 07:45website somewhere in some communication,
  • 07:47but they're never really in one place,
  • 07:51so the first thing we did on our website,
  • 07:55which is our primary at this point,
  • 07:58centralized point or hub for communication,
  • 08:00is really centralized.
  • 08:02All of these policies and standards.
  • 08:05And there's really,
  • 08:06you know,
  • 08:07we put ourselves in the shoes of
  • 08:09someone who is experiencing behavior
  • 08:10or had witnessed something and that
  • 08:12could be someone who was again
  • 08:15directly experiencing behavior.
  • 08:16Or perhaps a mentor or a faculty
  • 08:19leader where someone came to them
  • 08:20with a with an issue or a problem.
  • 08:23And they're like I don't know,
  • 08:25you know, I I don't think it's right,
  • 08:28but but you know,
  • 08:29how can I again level set my
  • 08:31reaction to kind of the School of
  • 08:33Medicine's standards on these things?
  • 08:35And what we did is for that person
  • 08:38who's kind of struggling. Is this OK?
  • 08:41Is this not OK? Is it me right?
  • 08:44What standard should I apply?
  • 08:46We consolidate all of that information
  • 08:49foundational to all of this is,
  • 08:51of course the core values of
  • 08:54the School of Medicine.
  • 08:55And I'm going to turn it over to Linda
  • 08:58to kind of review that because she was
  • 09:01part of the committee that originally
  • 09:03generated these these core values.
  • 09:06As well as core values for twenty
  • 09:0921st century leaders at the School of
  • 09:12Medicine and she can give you a little
  • 09:15history about how those work.
  • 09:17Thank you Andrea. So in late 2018,
  • 09:19Dean Alcorn brought together 3
  • 09:21climate committees, one on Wellness,
  • 09:24one on engagement and one on leadership.
  • 09:27And then the leadership Committee
  • 09:29was charged with defining what
  • 09:32leadership looks like in the 21st
  • 09:34century in the School of Medicine.
  • 09:37The committee.
  • 09:38Elected after much discussion and much many,
  • 09:41many interviews elected not to focus on
  • 09:45skills themselves but to focus on what
  • 09:49are values that actually drive behavior.
  • 09:52And that's very important that all
  • 09:53of these values that you see here
  • 09:56are the values that underlie the
  • 09:58behaviors that on the positive
  • 09:59side of professionalism and on the
  • 10:01lapsing side of professionalism.
  • 10:04I'll go into each component of the circle,
  • 10:07but to make two points about
  • 10:09this being a circle,
  • 10:10it's very intentional that it's not just
  • 10:13a conservation of space in a graphic,
  • 10:15it's intentional in the sense that
  • 10:17it wants that we want to emphasize
  • 10:19that there's not a hierarchy to
  • 10:21these values in traditional medical,
  • 10:24medical, academic world,
  • 10:25you might see excellence and
  • 10:27science and discovery at the top,
  • 10:29and then other things following.
  • 10:30We want to emphasize here that all of these.
  • 10:34Grown and equal value and that they re late.
  • 10:36Then the second point by the circle
  • 10:39is that they relate to one another.
  • 10:42But you cannot have innovation
  • 10:45and scholarship.
  • 10:46Without focusing on building an
  • 10:48engaged and productive community.
  • 10:50And without having people feel that
  • 10:53they are included in the mission
  • 10:55and having diverse points of view.
  • 10:57You can't sustain an innovative scholarship
  • 11:01without thinking of generativity.
  • 11:04Of the generation coming after you and
  • 11:07the world that you will make for them.
  • 11:10You can't do that without again building
  • 11:12an engaged and productive community so
  • 11:14they all interrelate with one another,
  • 11:17and then we want to call out
  • 11:19the value of integrity,
  • 11:21reflection and communication.
  • 11:23'cause it might sound like that communication
  • 11:26in particular is simply a skill,
  • 11:29but the capacity to think about
  • 11:31the group that you're leading.
  • 11:34The group, whether it's a lab group,
  • 11:36whether it's a section,
  • 11:37whether it's a Department,
  • 11:39whether it's the school,
  • 11:40the capacity to think about,
  • 11:42what they need, where they are.
  • 11:44How to best to communicate and
  • 11:46listen and communication is both
  • 11:48talking and listening to their needs.
  • 11:50Is is a skill, but it's also a value.
  • 11:54That you value the time that it takes
  • 11:57an you value understanding the other,
  • 11:59whether that other is an individual
  • 12:02or a group.
  • 12:03And reflections is also always
  • 12:05the cultivating, yes.
  • 12:07A skill on how to reflect on
  • 12:10the outcomes of 1's actions.
  • 12:12But it's also a value that you value.
  • 12:16The constant learning that goes
  • 12:18with that reflection.
  • 12:19So that's what these values are
  • 12:22and they drive the leadership
  • 12:24skills that we want to emphasize,
  • 12:27and they drive the.
  • 12:29Also the professionalism behaviors that
  • 12:32we want to encourage and facilitate.
  • 12:35These values have been adopted
  • 12:36as the School of Medicine values,
  • 12:39so not just for leadership,
  • 12:40but as the values for the School
  • 12:43of Medicine. And so Dan will go
  • 12:45back to everything on the other.
  • 12:47The grey side of the slide and I'll
  • 12:50turn back to Andrea.
  • 12:51So with respect to the other policies
  • 12:53and standards we we site and where
  • 12:56we're calling people's attention to
  • 12:58the Yale standards of faculty conduct
  • 13:00applied to all faculty members,
  • 13:02and it really outlines roles and
  • 13:04responsibilities as it relates to.
  • 13:06Faculties obligations as scholars,
  • 13:08educators and members of the Yelp
  • 13:11community with respect to other
  • 13:13policies and codes of conduct,
  • 13:15we have cited the policy
  • 13:18prohibiting discrimination,
  • 13:19harassment and sexual misconduct.
  • 13:21All of the the the standards with respect
  • 13:24to the the responsible conduct of research.
  • 13:27We have addressed the clinical
  • 13:28as well because through the Yale
  • 13:30Medicine practice standards
  • 13:32and professionalism Charter,
  • 13:33there are specific standards with
  • 13:35respect to the clinical practice
  • 13:37at the School of Medicine.
  • 13:39The Yale Standards of Business
  • 13:41Conduct applied to every member of
  • 13:43the Yale Community and deal with
  • 13:45things like and we all see them and
  • 13:48sign off on them when we onboard but.
  • 13:51You know they're not there again,
  • 13:54they're not in front of us every day,
  • 13:57but they they deal with things like
  • 14:00treating people with respect, honesty,
  • 14:02and integrity in our dealings.
  • 14:04Conflict of interest, conflict of commitment.
  • 14:09Honesty, financial integrity,
  • 14:10those types of things and then
  • 14:12we have the the campus Workplace
  • 14:15violence prevention policy,
  • 14:16which again talk specifically about
  • 14:18behaviors and the privacy and
  • 14:21security of health information of
  • 14:23course talks about or deals with all
  • 14:26of our duties as it relates to the
  • 14:29privacy of health information so.
  • 14:31All of these really help us define
  • 14:35and get a picture of what?
  • 14:38Professionalism means at the School
  • 14:40of Medicine and again as you can see
  • 14:43from the responsible conduct of research,
  • 14:45academic and research integrity is
  • 14:47part of the scope of our office.
  • 14:51Again,
  • 14:51just a way for us as we continue
  • 14:54to evolve an an again.
  • 14:56This is an iterative process until
  • 14:58we're able to kind of come up with
  • 15:01or arrive at a pithy list of of
  • 15:0310 pillars of professionalism.
  • 15:05These are at least the things that
  • 15:07we continue to flesh out so that we
  • 15:10all have a mutual understanding in
  • 15:12terms of how we're supposed to conduct
  • 15:15ourselves and treat one another.
  • 15:19So should we go to the
  • 15:21next slide show under this is sure
  • 15:24this is all the example of all that's.
  • 15:27This is an example of the Don't list,
  • 15:30which we have an we communicate,
  • 15:32but as you can as you can imagine,
  • 15:35it's impossible to have something
  • 15:36that's 100% inclusive but just
  • 15:38gives people a little sense of the
  • 15:41types of things that we in in the
  • 15:43scope and continuum of behaviors
  • 15:45that could be considered to breach
  • 15:47the professionalism standards.
  • 15:52And we have now a central portal.
  • 15:54But before I describe the portal,
  • 15:56I want to to make one more general frame.
  • 16:01We have a portal for reporting concerns
  • 16:03and we're spending a fair amount of time
  • 16:06right now talking about reporting concerns.
  • 16:09The overall goal though,
  • 16:10as I said earlier of this office,
  • 16:13is to change the culture.
  • 16:15And to change the culture
  • 16:17so that professionalism,
  • 16:19actually so that professionalism,
  • 16:20concerns go down and that we're
  • 16:22celebrating exemplary examples
  • 16:24of professionalism everyday.
  • 16:25So we're also working on the positive
  • 16:28prevention development side of things,
  • 16:30because we don't want just to
  • 16:33be a portal for all bad things,
  • 16:35but we do have a central for Portal Now.
  • 16:39One portal, one route,
  • 16:41an if you go on the OH APD website,
  • 16:45you'll see this very bright red button.
  • 16:48And it's on various places on
  • 16:49the website where you can click.
  • 16:51And report a concern.
  • 16:53We will, as will describe,
  • 16:54will help them find the appropriate
  • 16:57routes for addressing that concern.
  • 16:59But then, if you choose,
  • 17:01you can call and you'll reach Andrea
  • 17:03or me or our other colleague,
  • 17:06Jessica Wyland.
  • 17:06We have a web and email that's
  • 17:10viewed only by the three of us,
  • 17:12so that's another route as well as
  • 17:15this professionalism anonymous.
  • 17:16Or you can name reporting Andrea,
  • 17:18do you want to add to this
  • 17:21just in terms of that these
  • 17:23reporting mechanisms of course,
  • 17:25do not anyway interfere with anyone directly
  • 17:28addressing a concern that they might have.
  • 17:30You know, this is for individuals who
  • 17:33maybe aren't comfortable doing that,
  • 17:35or perhaps they've tried to get
  • 17:37behaviors addressed in the past and.
  • 17:40It just had.
  • 17:41They haven't just gotten any traction
  • 17:43or the behavior has persisted,
  • 17:45but nothing prohibits someone
  • 17:46who's comfortable from doing that.
  • 17:48The other thing is I do
  • 17:51with respect to reporting,
  • 17:52our office is a resource,
  • 17:54not just to folks who feel that they
  • 17:56feel that they are being the subject
  • 17:59of of unprofessional baby behavior,
  • 18:01but also individuals who may see
  • 18:03things right or may be struggling with
  • 18:06something because maybe Amenti has
  • 18:08reported something to do something.
  • 18:10To them,
  • 18:10and they don't quite know what to do with it,
  • 18:13so again,
  • 18:14there's that this is a way for you
  • 18:16just to reach us so that we can
  • 18:18provide that consultation and help.
  • 18:20So it's just a way to make us
  • 18:22iaccessible or the office iaccessible
  • 18:24if someone doesn't know her name.
  • 18:27And Ann has not dealt with us before.
  • 18:29It's really a way for people
  • 18:31just to access the office.
  • 18:35And the other point to add to this is as
  • 18:37Doctor Christo mentioned in the beginning,
  • 18:40that we are we have created
  • 18:43this way of reporting concerns.
  • 18:45But we're also trying to do this on a
  • 18:47central level and really asking that
  • 18:50this that people report when they need
  • 18:52to report will consult you individually.
  • 18:55But if you need to report
  • 18:57that you report Centralny.
  • 18:59On for this reason.
  • 19:01We're trying to standardize responses.
  • 19:04We're trying to standardize procedures.
  • 19:07But we also and I know that this will
  • 19:10sound like on the negative side of things.
  • 19:13But but we also want to be sure
  • 19:16that we can early on see when people
  • 19:19are starting to have trouble.
  • 19:21In the past five,
  • 19:22one concern might go to one office,
  • 19:25another concern or a similar concern
  • 19:27that might go to another office,
  • 19:29and there was a very not
  • 19:32coordinated response,
  • 19:32so it would be very possible for
  • 19:35someone to be having having some
  • 19:37challenges that were different offices
  • 19:39were addressing but never knew,
  • 19:41never knew the full story.
  • 19:43Never knew that this person,
  • 19:45for example,
  • 19:46was doing quite well until two months ago,
  • 19:49when all of a sudden three different
  • 19:52things happened.
  • 19:53So that's another.
  • 19:54That's another purpose of having
  • 19:56a single portal is so that we
  • 19:58can coordinate information.
  • 20:00We can have a much more early
  • 20:02response early detection,
  • 20:03and for those small number of people
  • 20:06that are having difficulties over
  • 20:07longer periods of time that we can
  • 20:10identify those much earlier and
  • 20:12before their impact on a number,
  • 20:14any number of our missions is more profound.
  • 20:17Would you add Andrea?
  • 20:19Yeah,
  • 20:19I think
  • 20:20that's that. Those are great points.
  • 20:23But say so. One of the things we really
  • 20:27want to address with everyone is.
  • 20:31Is essentially what can you expect
  • 20:32after you when you report a concern,
  • 20:34because I think one of the big.
  • 20:37I think hurdles sometimes is that
  • 20:39people feel and this could be someone,
  • 20:41again a mentor leader who
  • 20:43comes to us with a listen.
  • 20:45This is what I'm seeing or this is what
  • 20:47I've heard or someone who's actually
  • 20:49being the subject of certain types
  • 20:51of behavior that are unprofessional.
  • 20:53There's a fear of losing control,
  • 20:55you know, like you give it to this office,
  • 20:58you bring it to this office and
  • 21:00then they're off with it on an
  • 21:02institutional basis and you really
  • 21:03feel like losing control.
  • 21:05And that's really scary.
  • 21:06'cause it's hard enough to bring concerns.
  • 21:08Forward, so how do we deal with that?
  • 21:12That fear,
  • 21:12and I think one of the things we
  • 21:15we stress in all communications,
  • 21:18our website and and presentations
  • 21:20such as these and when dealing
  • 21:22with folks who bring issues forward
  • 21:24is we really consider ourselves
  • 21:26consultants in the first instance.
  • 21:29So anybody who reports a concern,
  • 21:31we,
  • 21:31we sit and we talk about how can
  • 21:34we address that unprofessional
  • 21:36behavior or the circumstances, right?
  • 21:38That prompted the report and really do
  • 21:41so in a way that they are comfortable
  • 21:44with in terms of their confidentiality
  • 21:46and all these other types of things.
  • 21:50So it's not like a report, and then we go.
  • 21:53It really is a conversation now.
  • 21:55We can only do that if we know
  • 21:58who's bringing the report forward,
  • 22:00and we do.
  • 22:01There is a mechanism for anonymous reporting,
  • 22:04but to the extent someone has,
  • 22:06someone identifies with the
  • 22:07complaint or contact us directly.
  • 22:09We that's part of our initial
  • 22:12conversation with them,
  • 22:13so we can problem solve and use our
  • 22:15creativity to address behaviors.
  • 22:17But again, protect confidentiality
  • 22:19or at least address those issues.
  • 22:21And again,
  • 22:22navigate the problem while
  • 22:24observing any parameters that
  • 22:25they might be comfortable with.
  • 22:27Fact finding.
  • 22:28In many instances a it may be warranted
  • 22:31for us to actually do additional
  • 22:33factfinding when we get a concern
  • 22:36raised to our office, and we do that.
  • 22:39And we do that.
  • 22:40In the form of fact finding specific
  • 22:43concerns or conducting confidential
  • 22:45climate assessments of work units.
  • 22:48Engagement, an referral.
  • 22:50We engage.
  • 22:50Depending on the nature of the concern,
  • 22:53the role of the person who
  • 22:56has brought things forward,
  • 22:57or the person who's involved.
  • 22:59We collaborate heavily with
  • 23:01Darren Latimer's office.
  • 23:02You know the deputy Dean of Diversity,
  • 23:04inclusion, and our Chief diversity Officer.
  • 23:07If a postdoc is involved,
  • 23:09we would talk to the the Office
  • 23:12of Postdoctoral Affairs,
  • 23:13an if a staff member is involved
  • 23:15in all of this,
  • 23:17we would collaborate with
  • 23:19human resources as well.
  • 23:20Again,
  • 23:21it's about evaluating and
  • 23:22addressing the concern in.
  • 23:24It's not about turf,
  • 23:25it's just about kind of.
  • 23:27How can we most effectively deal
  • 23:29with the issue?
  • 23:30That's that's in front of us and we speak.
  • 23:33I mean, we communicate regularly with
  • 23:35with Dean Lattimore on a number of issues,
  • 23:38and that gets to the last point,
  • 23:40which is sometimes we're not the best.
  • 23:43We we are not the most.
  • 23:45We are not the most appropriate
  • 23:47office to deal with an issue,
  • 23:49so something they came.
  • 23:51Come to us, but it's more
  • 23:53appropriately handled by Title Nine,
  • 23:55quarter eight coordinator,
  • 23:56or a Title 9 office rather than our office.
  • 24:00Same thing in referring things to
  • 24:02deal at a more or the Office of
  • 24:05Institutional Equity and Access.
  • 24:07So again,
  • 24:08there's a lot of partnership interaction,
  • 24:10engagement with our professionalism
  • 24:12partners because no one concern
  • 24:14is the same and everything has
  • 24:16nuance and specificity to it,
  • 24:18so we're working very cooperatively
  • 24:20with one another.
  • 24:25To the next 100
  • 24:26confidentiality and no retaliation.
  • 24:28Again, very, very. As you can imagine,
  • 24:31top of mind concerns for anybody
  • 24:33who interacts with our office,
  • 24:35and we have addressed the issue of
  • 24:38confidentiality and no retaliation explicitly
  • 24:40on our website and provided details on that.
  • 24:43Again, for people who are who are wondering,
  • 24:47right? Should I do this?
  • 24:49Should I should I should I trust this office?
  • 24:52Should I reach out to them with
  • 24:55respect to confidentiality?
  • 24:57All issues,
  • 24:57all issues that are brought to our office
  • 25:00are treated with the utmost discretion.
  • 25:03We have detailed conversations about
  • 25:05the parameters and preferences of the
  • 25:07individual with respect to confidentiality
  • 25:09and the request for absolute
  • 25:11confidentiality may impact resolution,
  • 25:13but it doesn't mean we can't do anything.
  • 25:16You know that that we that we
  • 25:18can't come come up with some way
  • 25:21to protect that confidentiality of
  • 25:23the individual who reported it and
  • 25:26do something to address behaviors?
  • 25:28And that's our job, right?
  • 25:30That's where our creativity and our
  • 25:32skills come in, and we do again.
  • 25:34Have detailed conversations with
  • 25:36folks who brought concerns forward.
  • 25:38I will tell you when we follow.
  • 25:40When I fell off,
  • 25:41I'll follow up with people after
  • 25:43they brought a concern forward.
  • 25:45I will say listen,
  • 25:47it was addressed an the parameters
  • 25:49that we decided upon that that we
  • 25:51agreed to with respect to your
  • 25:53confidentiality were preserved.
  • 25:54So again,
  • 25:55just to keep make sure people
  • 25:57understand they don't lose total.
  • 25:59Control and that their confidentiality
  • 26:01concerns are are respected with
  • 26:04respect to retaliation.
  • 26:05Retaliation is prohibited against
  • 26:07individuals who in good Faith report
  • 26:10alleged violations of Yelp policy
  • 26:12or law or provide information in
  • 26:14connection with the investigation
  • 26:16of these matters.
  • 26:17This is the policy of the University.
  • 26:21It is specifically articulated
  • 26:22and displayed on our website.
  • 26:25We talked to people about this
  • 26:27when they bring concerns forward.
  • 26:30By the same token, we also speak to,
  • 26:33you know,
  • 26:34someone who's who's were where
  • 26:35professionalism concern has been
  • 26:37raised about their behavior.
  • 26:39When we speak to them, we do.
  • 26:41We know, we educate.
  • 26:43We talked to them about the
  • 26:45prohibition and we also kind of
  • 26:47educate about things that come natural,
  • 26:50particularly things though.
  • 26:51That come that would come natural
  • 26:54to folks who are in.
  • 26:56In do the type of work that you do,
  • 26:59your fixers, you know you fix things,
  • 27:01and you know the natural instinct
  • 27:03of many if not most,
  • 27:05is to literally say you know this thing.
  • 27:07Was this this issue?
  • 27:08What they talked to me about this issue,
  • 27:11you know? did I offend you?
  • 27:13They start to ask about it.
  • 27:15If they start apologizing to everybody
  • 27:17and one of the things is that's a
  • 27:20natural instinct 'cause most people
  • 27:22do not want to offend people and
  • 27:24don't want to make people uncomfortable.
  • 27:26But again,
  • 27:27educating that that natural instinct,
  • 27:28right that natural kind of path
  • 27:30in many ways just serves to make
  • 27:32people uncomfortable and it could
  • 27:34be perceived as retaliation.
  • 27:36So that's again part of our education,
  • 27:38as when we talk to folks about these issues.
  • 27:41'cause again your,
  • 27:42your brain automatically goes to
  • 27:44oh goodness, who reported this?
  • 27:46And did I offend them and you want to fix it?
  • 27:50And we have to explain kind of why that's
  • 27:52not that why that's not allowed and how
  • 27:55it's in everybody's interest not to do that.
  • 27:58But just to kind of take the feedback
  • 28:01and adjust your behavior and the final
  • 28:04thing is that if in fact individuals
  • 28:06believe that they have been the subject
  • 28:10to retaliation because they spoke
  • 28:12to our office or any office in the
  • 28:15University of someone brought a Title 9
  • 28:18complaint were or went to the Diversity
  • 28:21Office with a claim about diversity,
  • 28:23inclusion or discrimination.
  • 28:26That they need.
  • 28:27They can come to us or back to the
  • 28:30original office and report that an and
  • 28:32one of the things that I think it's very
  • 28:35important to know about retaliation.
  • 28:37Prohibition is that the initial problem
  • 28:40may be quite small in discrete right?
  • 28:42The concern that was brought forward
  • 28:44may be quite discreet and not serious.
  • 28:46But if in fact it is determined
  • 28:49that retaliation has a curd that
  • 28:52then that discreet.
  • 28:53Smaller problem becomes a much bigger
  • 28:55problem because that is something that
  • 28:57we cannot have because people have to.
  • 28:59If we're going to have a decent culture,
  • 29:02we have to have a culture of safety and
  • 29:04that people can bring forth concerns.
  • 29:06And if we don't have that and people
  • 29:09can hear about concerns without
  • 29:10retaliating 'cause we don't have that
  • 29:13we just don't have a shot, right?
  • 29:15So we have to really take a hard
  • 29:17line against that.
  • 29:22Did you have anything to add to
  • 29:23that? No, I think that's well stated.
  • 29:25Do we? Should we go to the next slide?
  • 29:29So our overarching goal of this office
  • 29:32is is Andrea has also said is education.
  • 29:36We want actually overtime we
  • 29:39want to educate people about.
  • 29:41The standards of professionalism
  • 29:44about how to respond.
  • 29:47Um, about the various ways
  • 29:48that we can be helpful as well,
  • 29:51and then also as much as we
  • 29:53can to remedy those breaches.
  • 29:55We try and we are.
  • 29:57This is actually very important to us,
  • 30:00to be intervening in a very timely way.
  • 30:03So we monitor the website daily
  • 30:05several times a day we're monitoring
  • 30:08the reported concern and so we will
  • 30:11respond in a timely way and do our
  • 30:13best to be not only responsive quickly,
  • 30:16but responsive, thoughtfully,
  • 30:17and listening to the individual
  • 30:19needs in the individual colors.
  • 30:21If you will, of any concern.
  • 30:24Everything is different.
  • 30:25Every concern is different.
  • 30:27There's just not a list that we can make
  • 30:30and then say for concern a steps 1,
  • 30:33two, and three occur.
  • 30:34We take into account these drivers,
  • 30:36the character of the behavior,
  • 30:38the seriousness of it.
  • 30:40Is it a first time occurrence?
  • 30:43Watts the context as it occurs
  • 30:45in the context of tremendous
  • 30:46stressors and that individuals life.
  • 30:49What are all the things that really
  • 30:52determined Anna go into that behavior?
  • 30:55And is it reccuring?
  • 30:57How often is it a Kurd but also is
  • 31:00it recurring and is it recurring
  • 31:02over a short period of time or
  • 31:05a long period of time?
  • 31:07Those are the various things
  • 31:08that we need to take into account
  • 31:11in what makes this this work?
  • 31:13Have an individual flavor as
  • 31:15well as the need to be
  • 31:17creative. Andrea, please add.
  • 31:18I would just say that when you look at the
  • 31:22research in this area that has been done,
  • 31:24you know the research shows that 75 to.
  • 31:2780% of professionals in an academic medical
  • 31:31academic Medical Center environment self
  • 31:33correct within a few awareness conversations.
  • 31:37So I think we I mean that
  • 31:40kind of enters into our work.
  • 31:44You know, having the conversation when the
  • 31:48incident is isolated when the incident has,
  • 31:51you know is smaller if you
  • 31:55will or less significant.
  • 31:57And I'm not I'm separating serious,
  • 32:00serious misconduct here,
  • 32:01but behaviors that are are
  • 32:02breaches of professionalism,
  • 32:04but and but like add up, right?
  • 32:07An and tend to negatively
  • 32:09impact the culture most.
  • 32:10Again a very high percentage of folks the
  • 32:14research shows will self correct with some,
  • 32:16with with with, with in a few awareness I
  • 32:19mean three or less awareness conversations.
  • 32:22And I just think that that I
  • 32:25think is really driving our work.
  • 32:28And that if things are brought up and they
  • 32:31are addressed that most most of these
  • 32:34behaviors will in fact stop and cease,
  • 32:37and an that's a very I think,
  • 32:39powerful statistic that motivates
  • 32:41us every day as we do our work.
  • 32:48And then we're also developing.
  • 32:50As we said earlier, we're developing
  • 32:52because we think of leadership and
  • 32:55professionalism is hand in hand.
  • 32:57And we actually want to change the
  • 33:00culture and we want to give people skills
  • 33:04early on to address not only to address,
  • 33:07professionalism, lapses,
  • 33:08but skills about having
  • 33:10difficult conversations about
  • 33:11engaging communities and groups.
  • 33:13So we're developing leadership
  • 33:15education opportunities for
  • 33:16faculty at all ranks and roles.
  • 33:19We already have a set of customized
  • 33:22workshops that are on the on our website.
  • 33:26That Department scan request.
  • 33:27And we will come and do those for you.
  • 33:31And then we'll have some open
  • 33:33enrollment workshops that are
  • 33:34starting in the spring of 2021.
  • 33:37Very specific leadership
  • 33:38development programs justice.
  • 33:39Earlier this year we launched a
  • 33:42leadership development program for
  • 33:44new section Chiefs and program leads
  • 33:46and that will then become a twice
  • 33:49a year offering for anyone that
  • 33:51assumes those new leadership roles.
  • 33:54In that program includes didactic sessions,
  • 33:57but also includes peer peer support,
  • 34:00pure coaching over an extended
  • 34:02period of time.
  • 34:04One of the nice things about we've
  • 34:06discovered in our first round about
  • 34:08the program is that you bring section
  • 34:11Chiefs together from different
  • 34:12departments and they start to both hero.
  • 34:15You're dealing with the same thing
  • 34:17I'm dealing with and they begin to
  • 34:20learn how to share skills and learn
  • 34:22to be supportive of one another.
  • 34:24So you also,
  • 34:25we're also creating a condray if you will,
  • 34:28of leaders that can help each other see
  • 34:31different ideals with each other and
  • 34:33will be offering the second group of this.
  • 34:36Program later this spring.
  • 34:39The emerging leaders in the advanced
  • 34:41Emerging Leaders Program is one
  • 34:43that's been going on for awhile
  • 34:45in collaboration Yo medicine,
  • 34:46in collaboration with the
  • 34:48School of Management.
  • 34:49But the important difference now is that
  • 34:51the program has not doubled in size,
  • 34:53so it was 40 and it's now 80.
  • 34:57And working together with
  • 34:58Paul Taherian yo medicine.
  • 35:00We're creating channels where people
  • 35:02can actually apply as well as be
  • 35:04nominated by their chair and working very
  • 35:07closely with the School of Management.
  • 35:09Again around the values and how
  • 35:11we how we teach leadership skills
  • 35:13that will support the values.
  • 35:15The final area that we're
  • 35:17actively developing right now.
  • 35:19And then there's others that if
  • 35:21you invite us back in a year,
  • 35:24this list will grow.
  • 35:25But we're creating a cadre of coaches.
  • 35:28That are both external to Yale as well
  • 35:31as internal coaches and can provide
  • 35:33developmental coaching that is for again,
  • 35:36such as new section Chiefs who
  • 35:38need to learn some very specific
  • 35:40skills as well as coaching that
  • 35:42addresses when there has been a
  • 35:45professionalism concern and there is
  • 35:47clearly a need to learn something
  • 35:49different and you and you way of
  • 35:52approaching whatever the circumstances,
  • 35:53we will connect those individuals with
  • 35:56this group of coaches an will pair them.
  • 35:59Pair them up really based on
  • 36:04individual individual compatibility.
  • 36:06Our office then creates a set
  • 36:08of goals for the
  • 36:10coaching that then the coach and
  • 36:12the Coachee can adapt and revised.
  • 36:15But we do create those goals,
  • 36:17especially when the coaching has been
  • 36:20asked for mandated as a part of a
  • 36:24intervention for professionalism concern.
  • 36:26Actively growing this cohort.
  • 36:27So in a year from now we will have more
  • 36:30and we're growing it out at different
  • 36:32levels of coaching support as well Andrea,
  • 36:35would you add just I just
  • 36:37want to stress that when we talk
  • 36:40about leadership development,
  • 36:41but I think at times people
  • 36:42automatically go to people who
  • 36:44have some sort of leadership title.
  • 36:46And as we interpret it again with respect
  • 36:49to the education for all faculty.
  • 36:51Thanks and rolls, it is about again how
  • 36:54to have that difficult conversation.
  • 36:57How to receive that difficult conversation,
  • 37:00communication, building alignments.
  • 37:01You may have a very very small team
  • 37:05and you know how do you deal with
  • 37:08even interacting with a 2 trainees,
  • 37:11Anna Nana support staff,
  • 37:13member of the support staff.
  • 37:15So again I just think that we're
  • 37:19interpreting leadership development in
  • 37:20its broadest and most generous sense.
  • 37:23And our intent is to get those
  • 37:26programs to just about everyone who
  • 37:29again needs some soft skills training.
  • 37:32And an you know,
  • 37:33those those types of skills that really
  • 37:36again prep them for leadership roles,
  • 37:38but also help them in their their
  • 37:40day-to-day in the role they're currently in.
  • 37:44And so I would add that there's two things
  • 37:47that I hope we both hope that you can hear.
  • 37:50One is that we think of leadership
  • 37:52as a developmental progression,
  • 37:54not as just simply assuming a job or
  • 37:56moving up moving up the hierarchy.
  • 37:59We think of leadership is something
  • 38:01that can be learned as a set of skills
  • 38:04and a set of skills that you can use.
  • 38:07If you're running your lab of
  • 38:10three or your Department of 500.
  • 38:12So we really think of leadership,
  • 38:14not is just moving up the hierarchy,
  • 38:16but skills.
  • 38:17The other piece that that is really important
  • 38:20that I hope you're starting to hear,
  • 38:23is that it goes back to the
  • 38:25addressing of concerns is that
  • 38:27we don't just address concerns.
  • 38:29And then that's it.
  • 38:31We're very much continuing to be
  • 38:33involved and following up with both
  • 38:35the individual that brought the
  • 38:37concern as well as the individual
  • 38:39about whom the concern was brought.
  • 38:41Because we believe that it's
  • 38:43important to follow up to be sure that
  • 38:46interventions have had an impact,
  • 38:48but also it's a developmental developmental
  • 38:51idea that people can learn and change.
  • 38:54And we want to help to track that Andrea.
  • 39:01So do you want to go on this one?
  • 39:05This this just kind of shows the role of
  • 39:08the office and providing consultation
  • 39:11support for chairs and section Chiefs just
  • 39:15again developing a strategy to address
  • 39:19and remediate unprofessional behavior.
  • 39:21Supporting directly or indirectly
  • 39:24very necessary conversations.
  • 39:27And sometimes those can be difficult
  • 39:29regardless of what what role you're in.
  • 39:32An again our offices role in
  • 39:35supporting those conversations,
  • 39:36again either being present, ANAN,
  • 39:39participating in the conversation,
  • 39:41or assisting the cherished section chief
  • 39:43with having that behind the scenes
  • 39:46again factfinding conducting climate
  • 39:48assessments to assess work environments,
  • 39:50and those again are confidential
  • 39:53thematic overviews of an environment
  • 39:55that provides the leader with a sense
  • 39:58of how people are experiencing.
  • 40:00The unit and their colleagues an.
  • 40:03Again, it provides fruitful information
  • 40:05for how we can make recommendations
  • 40:08about adjustments,
  • 40:09things that can be done additional supports
  • 40:12that can really change that environment.
  • 40:15Conducting 360 feedback reviews
  • 40:17of individual faculty members,
  • 40:19and again providing check and
  • 40:21follow up in coaching support to
  • 40:24individual faculty members.
  • 40:25Units Department's What we do
  • 40:28as well is again the vetted.
  • 40:31An executive that vetted and matched
  • 40:33executive and leadership coaches.
  • 40:35We do Oriente them to the School of
  • 40:38Medicine values and then we do follow
  • 40:41up in corrective coaching engagements
  • 40:43just to ensure that it's not OK.
  • 40:45You have a coach go go fix it
  • 40:48and no one ever says OK.
  • 40:51Is it time to stop or is this actually
  • 40:54happening that if in fact the the Department
  • 40:57and then individual is engaged in coaching?
  • 41:00Let's make sure it's the right
  • 41:03one for that person.
  • 41:04You know,
  • 41:05let's make sure that that it's a
  • 41:07good fit and that it is an active,
  • 41:10engaged,
  • 41:10and productive engagement.
  • 41:14And that is it. So I think I can still be
  • 41:17very glad to take questions. In fact, the
  • 41:19questions are what we actually really want.
  • 41:22'cause we would really like to discuss.
  • 41:24I do see that there's already one question.
  • 41:26Cindy, did you want to monitor
  • 41:28them or do you want me to
  • 41:30do that? Go ahead, we can.
  • 41:32We can both tag team here.
  • 41:34Go ahead. Alright sounds great. Thanks.
  • 41:35So the question is who conducts the
  • 41:38fact finding and what options for
  • 41:40representation will the person who is
  • 41:42the subject of the fact finding half?
  • 41:44And the consequences?
  • 41:45So the fact finding as Andrea
  • 41:48and I can do this together,
  • 41:50the fact finding is conducted by us, Andrea,
  • 41:53Me or Jessica while in in our office.
  • 41:56But we also, if needed, as we said,
  • 41:59will reach out to other offices to help.
  • 42:02We're always working very closely
  • 42:04with both the person that brought the
  • 42:06complaint as well as the person about
  • 42:08whom the complaint has been made.
  • 42:10And and I don't know what the
  • 42:12person who asked the question.
  • 42:14What you mean by representation.
  • 42:16But certainly if the individual
  • 42:18wants to have a friend or colleague
  • 42:21with them when we speak with them,
  • 42:23that's that's fine and always allow Andre.
  • 42:26Do you want to add to that?
  • 42:29No, I think that covers it.
  • 42:32And the potential consequences go.
  • 42:36I know it would be actually probably much
  • 42:39more reassuring if we could have behavior
  • 42:42a consequence B behavior C consequences D,
  • 42:45But the consequences actually can range from,
  • 42:48as you've heard, vacanza conversation
  • 42:50that with the individual and
  • 42:52talking about why did this happen,
  • 42:54their perspective on how it happened
  • 42:57and how they might change to all the
  • 43:00way that certain things are more serious
  • 43:03as the other part of your question.
  • 43:06Implies about employment or promotional
  • 43:10concerns. The consequences are decided
  • 43:14in collaboration with the Dean.
  • 43:18Well, First off the.
  • 43:19Even the process that I'm about
  • 43:22to describe is.
  • 43:23Determined by the severity of the incident.
  • 43:25So if it's a first time event,
  • 43:28we've had a conversation,
  • 43:29we're not necessarily going to invoke
  • 43:32Dean and chair and everyone around that.
  • 43:34If it's much more serious than the
  • 43:37consequences might be reviewed by the Dean,
  • 43:39the section chief, or the chair.
  • 43:42And and then we will,
  • 43:44depending on the severity of the incident,
  • 43:46we will need to get the general
  • 43:49counsel involved.
  • 43:49Andrea, please add.
  • 43:51Again, I think it's it's very very
  • 43:54specific in terms of the nature
  • 43:56of the the nature of the conduct.
  • 43:58Most don't rise to that high level
  • 44:00unless there's again a very specific
  • 44:03and destructive pattern or very
  • 44:04serious incident of misconduct.
  • 44:06It's it's really conversation
  • 44:07and then that that is,
  • 44:09we have found that just when you look
  • 44:12at again at the research in this area,
  • 44:15but also for us, that is,
  • 44:17most issues are resolved
  • 44:18through that approach.
  • 44:19If they're not, or if it's serious, then.
  • 44:22You know it.
  • 44:23It has to be escalated and we do.
  • 44:30Other questions. We be glad that yes, power.
  • 44:36And you're muted.
  • 44:37How are you got it, thanks.
  • 44:40I'm glad to see this taking off
  • 44:42I I just recently. Reviewed
  • 44:44decision that Judge Arterton
  • 44:46wrote on a motion to dismiss last
  • 44:49week about a case from the anesthesia
  • 44:53Department against Yale and Yale,
  • 44:55New Haven Hospital. And I mean this
  • 44:58occurred a couple of years ago and I
  • 45:02think shows the need for this kind of
  • 45:05thing. One of the things that
  • 45:08disconcerted me a little bit about.
  • 45:11Um? The filing was that Yale New
  • 45:17Haven Hospital tried to argue.
  • 45:20That they were not an educational
  • 45:23institution under Title 9.
  • 45:25That offended me a little bit. I thought
  • 45:29that seemed inappropriate.
  • 45:32Well, how are the Rays actually?
  • 45:35He raised an important point.
  • 45:38So we've been talking a lot about
  • 45:40the Yale School of Medicine,
  • 45:42and this office sits in the
  • 45:45Yale School of Medicine.
  • 45:47Leo New Haven Health System
  • 45:48is a different system,
  • 45:49which is the point you're actually
  • 45:51raising and hence they can make
  • 45:53that argument whether whether
  • 45:54we accept that argument or not,
  • 45:56they can make it because
  • 45:58they are a different system.
  • 46:01That having been said,
  • 46:02one of the things that we're actually
  • 46:04working very closely on now it's
  • 46:07coordinating these efforts with Yale.
  • 46:08New Haven health system that cause,
  • 46:11for example,
  • 46:12an event might happen in the operating room.
  • 46:16And that same faculty member might have had
  • 46:19another event in a clinic of Yale Medicine.
  • 46:22And heretofore,
  • 46:23those would have been two separate events.
  • 46:26Um?
  • 46:27Either party might not have
  • 46:29known about the other.
  • 46:31And most importantly.
  • 46:32When you take those two together,
  • 46:35it might be more of a symptom,
  • 46:38an indication that that faculty
  • 46:40member was beginning to struggle.
  • 46:43And that a different level of
  • 46:45intervention was really needed because
  • 46:46they were beginning to struggle.
  • 46:48It was starting to filter across
  • 46:50all of their work environments.
  • 46:52So that's the other reason for bringing
  • 46:54the really working really closely
  • 46:55with the old New Haven health system,
  • 46:58and we've already done several joint
  • 47:00efforts with the health system.
  • 47:03And we're working working
  • 47:04through the process of having
  • 47:06coordinated information coming,
  • 47:07so they are L solutions.
  • 47:09That is the health systems if
  • 47:11you will report a concern.
  • 47:13But and we're working now to
  • 47:15be able to share that.
  • 47:17That information is shared with
  • 47:19us in a highly confidential way
  • 47:22and clearly very protected so that
  • 47:24we can start to think about these
  • 47:26temperature checks if you will
  • 47:28about the health of the faculty.
  • 47:30So coordinating with the health system is.
  • 47:33Is critical,
  • 47:34it's not just on the multiple other
  • 47:36levels that trying to bring together
  • 47:38the school in the health system,
  • 47:40but certainly on this this
  • 47:42level really important, Andrea.
  • 47:45No, I think that's I think you've really
  • 47:47detailed the way we're attempting to
  • 47:49really reach out and coordinate those.
  • 47:51The again, the information,
  • 47:53which I think is really important.
  • 47:56Sure. Comment on the specific training
  • 48:00for supervisors and supporting
  • 48:01trainees who may be facing problems.
  • 48:04Sometimes happens that senior faculty in a
  • 48:06well meaning manner encourage more junior
  • 48:09folks to be restrained or not rock the boat.
  • 48:12Maybe a reflection of their past experiences,
  • 48:14but it can have a significant
  • 48:16impact on whether the June.
  • 48:18Yes, absolutely. If I,
  • 48:20if I understand the gist of your question,
  • 48:22I think that under that is is the culture
  • 48:25change that we're trying to bring about.
  • 48:28So that but it takes awhile.
  • 48:30It takes awhile for historical.
  • 48:32The events of the past to begin
  • 48:34to fade in people's memories.
  • 48:37And the more recent events where
  • 48:39things have been addressed and been
  • 48:41addressed timely to come forward, but.
  • 48:44One of the things that we're trying to do,
  • 48:47and we'd be grateful for any input
  • 48:49in the very act of going around and
  • 48:52having these kinds of discussions,
  • 48:54is we're trying to actually help
  • 48:55people to start to realize how they
  • 48:58can support individuals coming forward.
  • 49:00Now you can talk about coming forward.
  • 49:02It's not just the last ditch effort,
  • 49:04but it's actually an effort to get
  • 49:06help to talk to, get some consultation,
  • 49:09and that there will be.
  • 49:10There will be a response.
  • 49:12At the least, the response will be to listen.
  • 49:16I meant to listen thoughtfully,
  • 49:18but that there will be a response.
  • 49:20Andrea.
  • 49:22I do, I think that again,
  • 49:24just outreach to the office to get
  • 49:26some advice on how to deal with
  • 49:29things or how we might be able to
  • 49:31address the behavior well again,
  • 49:33protecting the persons confidentiality.
  • 49:35I think it. I think it's I just
  • 49:37think it's one of those things where
  • 49:40it's worth the outreach you know.
  • 49:42Again, as you say, at a minimum,
  • 49:45you'll just have someone to listen,
  • 49:47maybe get some some advice
  • 49:48for how to navigate,
  • 49:50and then there may be something we can.
  • 49:53Actually do about the behavior.
  • 49:54We can go through suggestions and
  • 49:56just problem solve around it.
  • 49:59Either both of us have even
  • 50:02will not even make sense.
  • 50:04Both of us have offered we've
  • 50:06we've helped helped a junior person
  • 50:09have a difficult conversation.
  • 50:11We've either join the conversation
  • 50:13or given them some pointers and
  • 50:16then followed up with them.
  • 50:18It becomes a becomes an administrative
  • 50:22supportive relationship. Uh.
  • 50:27I don't.
  • 50:31Oh, I see. Sorry, sorry Cindy.
  • 50:33I read the question that was
  • 50:34sent just to you, sorry.
  • 50:37And we were saying that I think
  • 50:39folks may be sending things
  • 50:40directly to you, which is fine
  • 50:42that we just we aren't able to see
  • 50:44them. So OK, got it, got it.
  • 50:48Then it's important that I do read the
  • 50:50questions because I can't see anything,
  • 50:52so thank you. I'm no help.
  • 50:59Other questions. Or suggestions for
  • 51:03what you'd like to see us do more on or?
  • 51:17I will say that we've been quite busy.
  • 51:21And so. Just to say that I don't
  • 51:27think either of us actually
  • 51:28interpret that as a bad thing.
  • 51:30We actually interpret it as a good thing
  • 51:33that the word is starting to get out.
  • 51:35And people are starting to use
  • 51:37the office and we're starting to
  • 51:39see things at an earlier level,
  • 51:41which I do think is a very good sign.
  • 51:44'cause I think we can be very helpful then.
  • 51:47So encourage encourage people
  • 51:49to come forward.
  • 51:53You're muted, I'm sure. Is
  • 51:55there is one question and it
  • 51:57has to do with kind of what
  • 51:59will be the metrics of success.
  • 52:01Will there be data reporting
  • 52:02such as the number of times the
  • 52:04office has been involved that
  • 52:06number of times things have been
  • 52:07raised to the general counsel's
  • 52:09office, etc. Yeah, thanks Frank.
  • 52:11So absolutely so.
  • 52:12We are planning just like you get a Title
  • 52:159 I believe Title 9 reports quarterly.
  • 52:17Right now we are planning on reporting
  • 52:20annually at a pretty high level.
  • 52:22Obviously not want I don't want to make
  • 52:25people nervous about confidentiality,
  • 52:27so we'll be reporting at a high
  • 52:30level of a number of concerns.
  • 52:33We have more general categories so
  • 52:36that we can act in those categories.
  • 52:39Haven't thought about actually reporting
  • 52:42when we escalated to the general
  • 52:45counsel Becausw I would be a little
  • 52:49worried about since that happens.
  • 52:51The important thing to save is
  • 52:53just like in scientific misconduct,
  • 52:56which is pretty rare.
  • 52:57I mean actual, proven,
  • 52:59documented scientific misconduct
  • 53:01is pretty rare.
  • 53:02Really really severe professionalism
  • 53:04issues are also pretty rare.
  • 53:07And I know everyone sitting in this
  • 53:09room probably remembers or is thinking
  • 53:12about once they've heard about, but.
  • 53:16Truly, really severe ones are rare,
  • 53:18so I'd be slightly worried about the
  • 53:21more detail we give about the process.
  • 53:24Given the rarity that we might
  • 53:27compromise confidentiality,
  • 53:28but we certainly will be doing that.
  • 53:31And since we started this really in earnest,
  • 53:34just about.
  • 53:364-5 months ago will be reporting
  • 53:38out in another 5-6 months and then
  • 53:41that will be on an annual basis.
  • 53:43And if we discover that people want
  • 53:45it twice a year, then we will.
  • 53:48We will do that. Would you add 100?
  • 53:52So
  • 53:53that I think that you know,
  • 53:55I can see a scenario perhaps
  • 53:57where we report again the number
  • 53:59of cases case type if you will.
  • 54:02However, we categorize them and
  • 54:04then just kind of interventions
  • 54:06if you will to show people that
  • 54:08we do positive things as well,
  • 54:10not necessarily general counsels office.
  • 54:12But you know coaching engagements,
  • 54:14you know those types of things,
  • 54:16just to show the activities of the office,
  • 54:19I think might be a good thing and and again,
  • 54:22wouldn't necessarily.
  • 54:23Involved when we we,
  • 54:25we engage general counsel's office,
  • 54:27but just kind of the things that we're
  • 54:29doing to that are being implemented
  • 54:32to address behaviors but also just
  • 54:34improve the environment generally just
  • 54:36to show the activities of the office.
  • 54:41So these are really very important
  • 54:43question that's been directed to me,
  • 54:45that is that there obviously
  • 54:47there are persons that engage in
  • 54:49bullying and harassing behavior.
  • 54:51There are. Regretful part of life,
  • 54:56but that their faculty may be concerned.
  • 55:00About how they give feedback
  • 55:03to a trainee or fellow. Um,
  • 55:07and that they might get reported based on.
  • 55:11How they give that feedback or might
  • 55:14be accused of bullying or harassing.
  • 55:16I think it's an important
  • 55:18question on pawn 2 levels.
  • 55:21One is that it speaks to.
  • 55:24It speaks to culture.
  • 55:27And what we're trying to create
  • 55:29is not a culture of fear.
  • 55:31It's not a culture of seeking out bad NIS.
  • 55:38Although I know that we're focusing
  • 55:40a lot on reporting concerns.
  • 55:42We're really trying to create a
  • 55:45culture supporting one another
  • 55:48and everybody rising generativity.
  • 55:51So, so that's the more philosophical
  • 55:53point to this question,
  • 55:55but the other practical point.
  • 55:58Is another activity that and
  • 56:00when we talk about how to have
  • 56:02difficult conversations,
  • 56:03that kind of skill or the skill
  • 56:06about how to give feedback,
  • 56:08that's a skill in training that we can
  • 56:10offer faculty that we can offer individuals.
  • 56:13There are ways to give really challenging
  • 56:16and really difficult feedback that
  • 56:18it actually becomes an experience
  • 56:20where everybody can learn from.
  • 56:21We won't necessarily immediately
  • 56:23take away everyones fear about that.
  • 56:25I understand that,
  • 56:26but if we can give enough.
  • 56:28Enough skill and enough training and have
  • 56:31enough examples where it worked well.
  • 56:33I think that's that's that's the antidote.
  • 56:36If you will,
  • 56:37on Drew.
  • 56:40I just I guess I would
  • 56:42just emphasize that yes,
  • 56:44someone could report something
  • 56:45that again it was a difficult
  • 56:47conversation information.
  • 56:48They did not want to hear.
  • 56:51The reality is, how was the what
  • 56:53was the the the spirit and tone and
  • 56:56tenor of that conversation right?
  • 56:58So I think that the issue is just
  • 57:00exploring that the tenor and the tone
  • 57:02an just trying to figure out what
  • 57:05happened and and it could be that
  • 57:07honestly we need to go back to the
  • 57:09person who reported the concern and
  • 57:11again ask them kind of what was upsetting.
  • 57:14Was it the the way in which the
  • 57:17message was delivered or was it
  • 57:19the message and those are two
  • 57:21different things in many ways so.
  • 57:23Again, a lot of a lot of this
  • 57:25is just building awareness,
  • 57:27and if in fact something was
  • 57:29experienced in a way that was not
  • 57:32intended or reasonably did not occur,
  • 57:34then we address that.
  • 57:35But we have to.
  • 57:37We have to give the person who who feels
  • 57:39that that they experience something
  • 57:41that was that was insulting or bullying
  • 57:44or harassing or whatever it might be.
  • 57:47We have to give them some portal someplace to
  • 57:50go to report that so that we can help them.
  • 57:53Again,
  • 57:54feel heard an address.
  • 57:55Any concerns that they have.
  • 58:00And one of the IT will take time.
  • 58:03But one of the most perhaps important
  • 58:06messages that we want to try to get out.
  • 58:09There is one of trust that people can
  • 58:11trust in the process and trust in the
  • 58:14trust in our efforts to be helpful.
  • 58:17And we know that it will take time.
  • 58:25Linda, I don't know if you
  • 58:27have any other questions about
  • 58:28one more minute. I don't know if you
  • 58:29had anything else that came through.
  • 58:32Well, let's see. I don't
  • 58:36think so. Not that I can see.
  • 58:41Great, well thank you so much for being here.
  • 58:44We really appreciate it.
  • 58:45We definitely want to
  • 58:46have you back next year,
  • 58:48see how things are going and what
  • 58:51more that we might contribute to.
  • 58:53Developing a culture of trust and
  • 58:56commitment to more professional behavior.
  • 58:57So again, thank you so much for being here.
  • 59:01Thank you, Roger. Thank
  • 59:02you for having us. Bye.